Letter to Trade Me

[Big Dave]

Could this be in the realm of "personal responsibility"?
I, for one, don't want to be protected from everything.

I'm coming to get you, lou - have you seen how my luggage looks? hopefully it's fitted by now.

[Hoon]

I agree. Not all of us place safety above everything else. When I was buying my first helmet or 10, I didn't see it as a safety item but more as an annoying requirement which costs me money that I need to wear in order to avoid getting a ticket! So as expected I wanted to spend as little as possible on it.

Even now that I'm older and wiser, I may buy a $1000 helmet to protect me racing but reality prevents me from replacing it after every crash (it's seen 5+ now) and it would probably have to take a pretty decent knock before it is replaced.

My point is that you need to educate the buyer, not the seller (or in this case those providing a service to the buyer and seller). And even then the buyer still has the right to ignore this and buy a defective ticket saving helmet at their peril which I believe will still happen purely because they can.

[sunhuntin]

while i see where youre coming from, placid...if a newbie rider doesnt understand that a dropped helmet can be weakened, then it is not the fault of the seller if the buyer did not educate themselves. my first helmet was a $99 from cashies...that kept me alive in 2 wrecks [one on grass, and the other on the road] my new one is too big, so considering going back to the old one... myself, i knew the risks if buying a 2nd hand lid and took it. if i could legally ride without one, i would.

[WINJA]

did you send them an email about dogs that might bite someone , or second hand hair driers that might catch on fire , really who cares , the world is regulated enough with rules and regs and bullshit without another little rule being added , caveat emptor or something like that

[Big Dave]

caveat emptor or something like that

I hate it when you beat me to stuff.

[jonbuoy]

I think its a con by the manufacturers - if you drop an empty helmet from a metre above the ground, theres no way it takes anywhere near the impact that it would with my big noggin inside it kissing the pavement at 80KMs or so. It doesn't take much to scratch a helmet in normal use - it would be pretty obvious if its had a fair whack.

There maybe a genuine reason for selling it - like they want the latest and greatest or it pinches their ears or something.

Please don't spoil it for the bargain hunters!!!

[Jantar]

I beleive the only way to properly test if a helmet is still any good destroys the helmet in the process. You can only make a visual inspection of the external and internal surface, which may or may not reveal any clues as to the suitability of the internal foam.

I have a very good 4 step method of testing old helmets to see if they are still OK:

Step 1. Visually inspect the outer shell for any sign of damage.
Step 2. Visually inspect the straps, fastners, and stitching for any sign of damage.
Step 3. Slice the helmet open (an axe or machete works well) and check the inner for consistancy and conformity.
Step 4. Repeat step 1.

If the helmet fails any step it must be replaced.

I have tested around a dozen helmets over the years, and the strange thing is that every old helmet I have tested has failed. Most fail at step 1. A few at step 3, and the remainder at step 4. Only 1 has failed at step 2.

[Ixion]

One very obvious reason for people selling undamaged helmets is that they are giving up motorcycling (money, family, old age, whatever) , or have done in the past, but kept the helmet. Which they now decide to clear out. Or sometimes a couple will each have a lid, he has a bin and gives it away . *Her* undamaged helmet (she not being pillion at the time) is obviously surplus and is sold. Also young folk often sell their bike, go overseas , levae the gear with Mum and Dad, who eventually sell it. Lots and lots of reasons.

[DirtMad]

Ive emailed them over concerns in the past. Bottom line for them is: unless they will loose out on money, or be faced with certain legal action - they dont give a crap
There will always be tight arses or ppl with limited income that would like to buy a used helmet... after all - even a shit helmet is better than "the bare mullet" on the guy that rides up and down my street

[Virago]

While I can understand your concerns about the dangers of second-hand helmets, I don't believe that trying to ban the advertising and sale is appropriate.

As others have pointed out, there are many vaild reasons for the sale of a second-hand helmet.

There are far too many zealots in our society, who all want to protect the rest of society from itself, and want to ban the advertising of "unsafe" items, for instance firearms.

My first helmet was second-hand, bought from a bike mechanic who wanted a different helmet for himself.

[vtec]

I have a feeling that there is a lot of bull crap out there about helmets getting damaged from minor drops. I think its rumour thats been spread by helmet manufacturer's/retailer so they can sell more helmets.

Can anyone show us some definitive information about the safety of dropped helmets. What happens if you crash with the extra weight of your head in the helmet... and low and behold your head hits the ground then you hit a wall or something, I have a feeling that the helmet will still be effective on the wall impact

Still this is about 2nd hand helmets. I reckon selling second hand helmets is fine, just means that poor people can wear them too. Plus they might just be used for low risk things like drag racing cars, or props for various reasons. I myself will only buy new, but I reckon a $100 FFM helmet will do the trick, and you could buy 10 of them for the price of some of those other brands. Means you can chuck it after crashing. But I won't unless there is some very noticeable damage.

[Big Dave]

Co-pilot once lined up a ride with a work associate on the back of 'Pantine's' speed triple.
tidy looking, leggy brunette who we discovered had a bit of a 'Jeckyll and Hyde' - in and out of work modes.
Quite well mannered in the work kit, but Dave reckoned he was going to sell the helmet cause he couldn't get the smell of Rothmans and Steinlager out of it after she wore it casual.

[James Deuce]

It's not shell damage that is the issue, it's the foam liner inside. That is the MOST important part of a helmet. The outer shell is there to take the brunt of an initial point impact and the liner slows the acceleration of your brain against the inside of your skull. If the liner is damaged or compressed it doesn't work as well, increasing the damage caused by the head injury you just got. Every blow to the head that causes even a minor concussion has the potential to limit your life in some way, from random unexplained headaches right throught the spectrum of sensory impairment to catatonic vegetable status. You only need a gentle hit in the right place to rupture important blood vessels.

Of course I see that the NIMBY brigade will, and have insisted that it can't possibly happen to them. A cut in the foam lining that you can't see (say from keys or glove fittings) could kill you. Foam lining compressed by a couple of years of crabon fibre knuckled gloves being rammed into the helmet can lessen the quality of the fit and transform a head injury from a headache to unconciousness or worse.

I support what Placidfemme is doing here. If the Helmet is second hand it no longer meets the standard it was constructed to. That is why cots that do not meet NZS requirements were pulled from Trademe.

I'm thoroughly disgusted that one person's attempt to change one thing that can be aimed at and MAY save someone from decreased quality of life has been thoroughly rubbished without any qualms by people who should be a little more mature than that. BY all means debate. There's no need for ridicule. As for attacking a bigger issue, success with smaller issues helps build a methodology for approaching organisations who hide behind capitalist ethics, or a Government department run on a bureaucracy.

Have a look at the link below. I'm thinking of retiring the Arai and getting a "cheaper" helmet that is of less rigid consttruction.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/hatz/

[placidfemme]

It's not shell damage that is the issue, it's the foam liner inside. That is the MOST important part of a helmet. The outer shell is there to take the brunt of an initial point impact and the liner slows the acceleration of your brain against the inside of your skull. If the liner is damaged or compressed it doesn't work as well, increasing the damage caused by the head injury you just got. Every blow to the head that causes even a minor concussion has the potential to limit your life in some way, from random unexplained headaches right throught the spectrum of sensory impairment to catatonic vegetable status. You only need a gentle hit in the right place to rupture important blood vessels.

Of course I see that the NIMBY brigade will, and have insisted that it can't possibly happen to them. A cut in the foam lining that you can't see (say from keys or glove fittings) could kill you. Foam lining compressed by a couple of years of crabon fibre knuckled gloves being rammed into the helmet can lessen the quality of the fit and transform a head injury from a headache to unconciousness or worse.

I support what Placidfemme is doing here. If the Helmet is second hand it no longer meets the standard it was constructed to. That is why cots that do not meet NZS requirements were pulled from Trademe.

I'm thoroughly disgusted that one person's attempt to change one thing that can be aimed at and MAY save someone from decreased quality of life has been thoroughly rubbished without any qualms by people who should be a little more mature than that. BY all means debate. There's no need for ridicule. As for attacking a bigger issue, success with smaller issues helps build a methodology for approaching organisations who hide behind capitalist ethics, or a Government department run on a bureaucracy.

Have a look at the link below. I'm thinking of retiring the Arai and getting a "cheaper" helmet that is of less rigid consttruction.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/hatz/

Wow thats some article... thanks for posting that, gives a lot more light on the subject

[Motu]

I've got no problems with buying a second hand helmet - I've been wearing one I got at Cash Converters for 5 years or more.But it's an important decision and not one I take lightly - I certainly wouldn't buy one unseen over the internet.