Campbell Live tonight 22/02/06

[miSTa]

Why can't Telecom do what they want, and what's it got to do with the government?

It's due to what was called the Kiwi Share or something, IIRC it's called something else now but the basic idea is the same.

[Back Fire]

our copper phone lines won't take that kind of data being shoved down them to get speeds like aussie etc... we need to change to fibre optics....and they don't wanna spend that large amount of money

MA

this is the only time in the history of this site you are going to get green bling for me!! To true

[far queue]

So, why can't the government (aka the people) do what it wants. The government sold the family silver, the government can take it back. Nationalise the bastidges. The current obsession that nothing may be allowed to interfere with private profit is poppycock.

I don’t believe you can sell something, and then just say I’ll have it back now thanks because I don’t like what you’re doing with it. The government had to buy the rails back off Toll, and had to buy its way back into AirNZ. Telecom is worth a hell of a lot more now than it was in 1987, and the government wont be buying it back anytime soon.

And whilst the government did sell Telecom it still, like you and I, should opperate within the laws of the land. Telecom openly and wontonly flout these laws and should be held to account.

What laws is Telecom wontonly flouting?

It's due to what was called the Kiwi Share or something, IIRC it's called something else now but the basic idea is the same.

Yes it was called the Kiwi Share, and I think it still is. As far as I know this mainly related to restricting price increases on residential lines to the rate of inflation and not allowing local call charging on residential lines. I could be wrong on this. I assume that if Telecom had actually gone against its legal obligations the government would have done something.

[Karma]

One of the thing that really gets me is that people moan about Telecom all the time, and yet your banks charge you 15c everytime you buy something... and charge you 16% on a loan or credit card and only give you 6% interest on a savings account.

If you wanna know who's really making money, talk to the banks eh...

[Ixion]

I don’t believe you can sell something, and then just say I’ll have it back now thanks because I don’t like what you’re doing with it. The government had to buy the rails back off Toll, and had to buy its way back into AirNZ. Telecom is worth a hell of a lot more now than it was in 1987, and the government wont be buying it back anytime soon.
,,

Of course you can. Any economic system is justifed ONLY by the benefit which the people derive from it. If the people would derive more benefit from a nationalised telecommunications industry (as it was for years before that idiot Douglas gave it away to his mates ) than from having the industry in private hands, then the government not only can repossess it, but has a duty to do so. Only question is whether the present "owners" get any compensation, Me, being a communist, I say "No - put the buggers up against a wall and shoot them, that'll stop their whining". But others may be mre wimpish. After the second world war dozens of businesses were nationalised here and in the UK.

Whether they will is of course another matter. The present government, and opposition are well and truely in the pockets of international capitalism, they (and you) are bought sold and delivered. *Your* only function in this economic system my friend is to pay the bills , by means of the process where only a tiny fraction of the fruits of your labour are aactually returned to you.

[miSTa]

One of the thing that really gets me is that people moan about Telecom all the time, and yet your banks charge you 15c everytime you buy something... and charge you 16% on a loan or credit card and only give you 6% interest on a savings account.

Don't what bank you're with but I pay nothing. As for credit cards - they're optional, if you don't like the interest rate either pay it of in full or don't use it.

[MisterD]

our copper phone lines won't take that kind of data being shoved down them to get speeds like aussie etc... we need to change to fibre optics....and they don't wanna spend that large amount of money

MA

You'd be surprised what you can shove down a good ole twisted pair, the main problem we've got it the combination of copper and a long distance to the local exchange.

It's only right that the government legislates to unbundle the local loop, Tcom didn't build the infrastructure,the country did...

[far queue]

It's only right that the government legislates to unbundle the local loop, Tcom didn't build the infrastructure,the country did...

Yep, we did, and then sold it. The government doesn't own it anymore, they took their money, and people are now whinging to Telecom about it. Telecom can do what they like with their property, why whould they want to let their opposition in. And it's no good complaining to the government about something they did nearly 20 years ago. Bit late to be whining now, the horse has well and truly bolted.

[MisterD]

Yep, we did, and then sold it. The government doesn't own it anymore,

No, but the government still runs the country, sets the rules, defines the playing field. The monopoly situation was state created, and it can be state-broken. Telecom will still retain their asset, and they will still make money on it.

What we are talking about is forcing Tcom to sell access to their lines, rather than just allowing others to re-sell their services.

[far queue]

No, but the government still runs the country, sets the rules, defines the playing field. The monopoly situation was state created, and it can be state-broken. Telecom will still retain their asset, and they will still make money on it.

What we are talking about is forcing Tcom to sell access to their lines, rather than just allowing others to re-sell their services.

I'm of the opinion that the government shouldn't be meddling in the affairs of individuals, companies, etc. There are laws and regulations which we all have to abide by, and as long as none of those are being broken then the government needs to keep its nose out. The government did something real dumb when it sold Telecom, but sell it did, and it shouldn't have right to now dictate how the private company is now run.

Yep, sure it would be good if there was more competition. Prices would come down and services would go up. But the government didn't allow for that to happen when it sold everything off, lock stock and barrel.

We have to work within the laws and regulations we have, and those laws and regulations say that Telecom isn't doing anything wrong. Morally it may not be right, but legally it is. I don't have any faith in any large organisation to do the right thing morally, they're all in it for the money, and will screw us all as much as they can to make more money. Some of these companies also treat their own staff the same way. But as long as they're doing everything by the rules then there's not a lot that can be done.

[Warren]

This is not about the government interfering with public companies "unlawfully". When the govt sold Telecom there was also the kiwishare agreement (because telecom is a monopoly, and will abuse it's position without the agreement). I do not know much about the kiwi share but I am pretty sure that telecom has to set certain goals and achieve them or else the govt can take action.

[far queue]

This is not about the government interfering with public companies "unlawfully".

I'm not talking about whether or not it's "lawful" for the Govt to dick about with private companies. The Govt can make laws to please themselves, and have done so in the past, often slipping a new one through on the sly in the middle of the night if they think it might not be popular. I'm talking about it not being "right" for the Govt to meddle in the affairs of individuals and private companies. The difference between what's legally right and what's morally right.

This isn't just about Telecom it's about the rights of the people and business. Telecom are playing within the rules and are within their rights to do as they have been. It's not morally right for them to screw us all, but I don't believe they're actually doing anything outside the rules. As I said earlier, I don't believe any large business has any morals when it comes to making money. Also, I don't beleive the MP's have morals either. They just tell the lies they have to in order to get and keep their jobs.

When the govt sold Telecom there was also the kiwishare agreement (because telecom is a monopoly, and will abuse it's position without the agreement).

Yes they're a monopoly, and yes they will abuse it, as will any other large business. See above RE morals.

I do not know much about the kiwi share but I am pretty sure that telecom has to set certain goals and achieve them or else the govt can take action.

Yes they have set goals with govt, and they have achieved them. Telecom are very good at following the rules to the letter, often to their interpretation of the letter. That's why they have lots of lawyers and accountants to make sure the rules are followed to the best advantage of Telecom - just like all the other big companies.

[Lou Girardin]

Terresa Gutting was a political appointment. With all the man hating women in Government, they needed an ugly women to front Telecom.

She certainly doesn't pull the strings and has absolutely no presence. I've met her once and she reminded me of a depressed housewife. With the monopoly Telecom has even Crazy Steve could run it successfully.

You mean that our Govt got the owners to select Gattung as CEO?
They must have more influence overseas than I thought.

[Lou Girardin]

When a privately owned company is holding back the economic developement of this country, changes need to be made.
And the Govt (the Nat's I believe) that sold the local loop needs to be regularly shamed.

[Finn]

You mean that our Govt got the owners to select Gattung as CEO?
They must have more influence overseas than I thought.

I meant the Telecom board made the appointment. I wasn't using the term "political" literally however you just never know what this Government is capable of. Lefties are very nasty people.