Do Dirtbike riders make better road riders?

[bluninja]

Hey Wkid, why not just spit the dummy? I disagreed with one of your statements....and without your further comments I would still disagree with it. Some people are not so discerning as to make all the linkages you meant to imply in your statement.

As for pedantic....this site can't be pedantic...it has no intelligence of it's own. So I guess it's the people writing (oops typing) that are the pedants. I make no assumptions as to your thoughts or intentions, I just accept it for how it reads to me. I don't know if your tirade is directed at me, or all the posters that disagreed with some things you wrote. However your response seems intolerant of people whose views oppose your own. 

Hey wouldn't it be great if we could stand near a great rider and just absorb their skills and knowledge? I'd even wear a semi-permeable membrane if it helped.

TTFN

[Skunk]

Originally posted by wkid_one
I ASSUMED we were talking about people who wish to IMPROVE their riding - in this case - time in the saddle is the most important thing

I still disagree. As you say...

it is only about encoutering every possible situation and learning from it.

Hence dirt riding helps by providing an even greater varity of situations.

Why do insurance companys load premiums for people under 25 - cause they have more accidents - why because they are less experienced (either to handle to situation or know when to hoon).

I think that with motorcycles the high risk group is in their 40's... probably for the same reason through.

My point is that you need to put in the time to improve - nothing beats it - there is no quick cure to becoming a good rider - it is just experience and confidence (in yourself and your bike).

Time - yes. And as you say experience. But time does not equal experience. I think people got confused as to your point when you stated

NOTHING BEATS HOW LONG YOU HAVE BEEN RIDING...

as this is now obliously not what you meant.

I never said dirt bike riding wasn't valuable - it just isn't going to make you a better road rider than time spent pushing you limits on the road.

which I still disagree with (if the rider has the same attiude in both situations).

My opinions; you don't have to agree. Just be polite.

[Kwaka-Kid]

Originally posted by wkid_one
I ASSUMED...

there is where u went wrong! - To Assume is to make an ASS outta U and ME... or in this case, maybe just you :P

haha, no sorry for being such a smart-ass actually, i dont mean to offend, just felt like putting that, but anyway i havent had a chance to fully read everyones post, but heres my 2 cents...

Originally posted by wkid_one
NOTHING BEATS HOW LONG YOU HAVE BEEN RIDING...

Even with your idea of people always Wanting to Improve etc etc. I almost fully agree with this, altho there are some few cases where ive seen things work backwards :/ 

I feel its not always as black and white as that, even if we were all trying to improve.  hmm, now im trying to think of this hard (because i dont always have a way with words/expressing what im thinking).  I feel some people, BECAUSE they know/feel they have lots of bike experience, let their standerds of riding slip, and therefore generally become worse riders, ive seen a few riders like this, and im putting the reason for LOTS of little things i see wrong in their riding (im talking general road riding, e.g tailgating etc) is because they THINK they have lots of experience, which they might have, but im talking of the whole mental approach if you know what i mean.  Argh, i cant explain it, if you can.. please do it better for me and maybe it doesnt fit in here, but anyways.

Lastly id like to comment on the Grip thing.  Now some people (or i thought when i skim read) seem to think that dirt skills etc help you in sticky situations etc.  I honestly dont feel that the experience of whats physically happening, can help you any.  when i went for my first real "jamm on both brakes in the wet as hard as u can, or choose to hit the car instead" after 5 years dirt experience, i couldnt beleive how slippery it was on the rear firstly.  I barely touched it, and the rear locked up, and it seriously slapped between my legs and felt like i could loose control @ any second far too easily.  Secondly i locekd the front wheel and it bounced! it just juddering/bounced up down up down, really harshly and altho it was only for a split second (as i soon stopped pulling the brake so hard) it felt really really foreign!  On a dirt bike (in general dirt/sand) i lock the rear wheel and shes pretty friggin slow moving - in terms of side to side movement, really controlable and @ high speed (fora dirt bike) i can lock the rear and just come to a stop eventually and easily. talking of the front wheel, when i lock up on a dirt bike, in sand she just boggs down and in! and on dirt she yanks hard to one side and just wants to stop, with some small juddering.  Now i feel my dirt experience helped with just understanding balance of being on 2 wheels, however in that situation, i dont feel my dirt experience was directly relevant/usefull.

Hmm, well im tired after a long day and half the stuff in their is confusing me now (mainly trying to think back so far) and so thats my excuse for anything that gets totally shot down on here :P.  But please do comment on what ive said - specially you Bluninja, you seem to have answers/POSITIVE critizism on everything

[bluninja]

KK, criticize? moi? no but, it seems I analise a lot Must admit I wouldn't have dared to use the old ASSUME explanation

It's a great point you make about experienced riders (if I understood correctly) who develop bad habits over time, because of their experience, and end up gradually getting worse. I'ts a different view to what has been posted so far on saddle time, one to make some experienced riders scratch their heads and have a think about their own riding. It's made me think. Thanks.

TTFN

[Motu]

Well,Im one of those who think dirt riding definatly helps with road riding.Kenny Roberts thinks so too,the modern knee drag/throttle steer rear wheel slide style of road racing was developed by KR from his flat track experiance,in his road racing schools he had them riding under powered dirt bikes to teach them to maintain speed at all costs and how to control front and rear slides.Then they went onto seal and transfered these skills.

Another thing off road riding teaches is reading terain,this is much more important off road,but an off road rider brings this to his road riding.I ride an adventure bike,and my riding style is definatly dirt,this is the fastest way to ride the tight stuff,as you have seen the motards do.

[Pickle]

Comparing dirt riding to road riding? they complement each other dont they, dirt riding is a lot about balance. There is an old saying "to go fast first you must learn to go slow". Dirt riding  teaches you bike control at a lower speed & usually on lighter bikes so the more time you spend riding off road or like me on dirt roads or hooning around the beach the more I like riding my 600 fast & feel confident doing it.

As for zrx's comments about people in their 40's I take exception to that!

[wkid_one]

Now then - what if you are riding a quad bike/atv?

Also, does riding a Jet Ski help your bike riding? or a Snow Mobile?  Or a Tuk-Tuk? What About Drag Racing or Hill-Climbing?

Mini-Moto's look fun tho don't they

Food for thought me thinks!

[Motu]

I wouldn't call flat track racing slow, specially on a mile track.If you are riding on gravel then you know that you are much more aware of surface conditions,on coming traffic and much more,gravel road are our best training grounds.

As for going slow,I ride trials too,probably to most important thing in my riding kit.

[Jinx3d]

dirt biking is good experience because....

You learn how much it hurts to crash and buy lots of protective clothing!
You never see dirt bikers riding in teeshirts jandal and bandana's do ya?

From personal experience of road biking, dirt biking and mountain biking...I'd say mountain biking has been more valuable than the dirt biking.

DOnt know why, possibly because you have so little suspension and grip that you are constantly being challenged.

And it keeps you fit too.

[Sensei]

Well here I go. Wkid's points' out the main reason for riding be it Dirt or Road . Is to get the best you can from pushing yourself & your machine to & sometime's beyond your normal limit's so as to get better or faster .Myself riden dirt from 6year's old & road from 15 so 25years on the road . 40 Bike's later I still try to better myself each time I go out . True some people cann't ride for shit & never will . As long as you enjoy your riding Dirt /Road skill's between both are all up to you as long as your happy that's all that matter's That's why I'v probably got a road bike with Dirt bike handle bar's I suppose Sensei

[Deano]

[QUOTE=wkid_one]
I play competitive snooker - and this also makes me a good pool player - BUT I will always get beaten by someone who plays competitive pool...same goes in riding.  It will help, but not be the be all and end all.
[QUOTE]

????????? You sly bastard - how come you didn't get up and put me in my place on Thursday night ????

Just being modest ?

[FROSTY:Me]

probably already covered but -To me there are two basic elements to road riding actually learning to control the bike and 2 dealing with traffic therefore signals ,other drivers etc.
Any riding experience be it dirt riding or possibly even be it bucket racing will improve your chances on the open road.
Heck I learnt how to ride on a honda c50 on our back lawn/paddock. 3 gears ,a seat, brakes, and bugger all else. It taught me at the very basic level how to balance and the concept of changing gears etc well before i was old enough to venture onto the road
I think any riding experience pre road riding is good

[Jackrat]

I firmly belive dirt riding has improved my road riding from a machine handling point of view.I don't give much thought to riding through unexspected gravel and that has only come from lots of dirt riding.The main thing dirt riding has taught me is to never back off.It works in the dirt and it works on the road.
Weather this works as well on a sport bike I don't really know but watching Gary McCoy makes me think it probably does.Iv'e always liked riding behind guys I belive are better riders than me,,Not a surprise but all these guys are also good in the dirt.

[Deano]

I agree that all experience is good, be it dirt or road. Colin Edwards recently said that motarding had impeded his road track racing, but at his level of skill and for his requirements, perhaps it is better to focus on one style.

[FROSTY:Me]

Ive seen some pretty silly accidents with new riders . -the old screw the throttle to the stop dont use the clutch type.
If they rode traileys first maybee they wouldnt do that stuff.
mind you then again maybee they should ride a scooter through a feild of pissed off bulls--to get an idea of what its like to road ride