Now that's service!

**onearmedbandit** · 12th March 2006, 10:42

CC, we are tired of you now. Please close the door on the way out. Thank you.

**imdying** · 12th March 2006, 12:28

Originally Posted by CLEAN CUT

A SHOP? GENDER? I'VE GOT SOME BRAIN CELLS, YOUVE GOT BALLS....RATTLING INSIDE THE CAVITY BETWEEN YOUR EARS. NEVER ASSUME, IT WILL CATCH YOU OUT

The shop, well either you're speaking in this thread from experience, or you're full of shit. I'm guessing the full of shit option, but I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

The gender, well you did select male when you created your profile. You do know what gender you are? Don't you? Didn't mummy and daddy teach you the difference between boys and girls? Something else you can bitch to your parents about at their wedding I guess.

**denill** · 12th March 2006, 14:15

Originally Posted by Pixie

Market forces.
More and more people will buy on-line in the future.(Oops,sorry,I forgot to use New Speak) Going forward.
The retailers will have to provide service and the right price to compete.

Perfectly said Pixie. Yes market forces will ALWAYS prevail. Anything else is artificial and both Muldoon and Stalin tried alternatives to market forces. And they didn't work...........

The question MUST be asked of CLEAN CUT. Why can the SAME product be purchased in another country in our currency, then shipped here for considerably less than than that product could be purchased here???

The answer is of course - greedy margins and not necessarily the retailer's margin......... Importers who (think/thought) they have a monoply are the most likely sector to load up their margin!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thus now that the peasants can buy online, anywhere in the world, market forces will eventually cause the profiteers (whoever they are) to get real - or else...........

If CLEAN CUT is in fact a businessman he SHOULD be aware of market forces or he won't be businessman for much longer. And bleating will not help.......

**onearmedbandit** · 12th March 2006, 14:27

Last time I was in Japan I saw top-of-the-line Arai helmets going for NZ$480 brand new. Same helmet here in NZ, at least $1600. Questioned a local retailer about this and he put it down to what they pay the importers. Regardless of why, how, or who, it was agreed that we get ripped off. Now tell me why I should sacrifice $1100 of my money to keep an importer paid?

**CLEAN CUT** · 12th March 2006, 19:40

Originally Posted by onearmedbandit

Last time I was in Japan I saw top-of-the-line Arai helmets going for NZ$480 brand new. Same helmet here in NZ, at least $1600. Questioned a local retailer about this and he put it down to what they pay the importers. Regardless of why, how, or who, it was agreed that we get ripped off. Now tell me why I should sacrifice $1100 of my money to keep an importer paid?

I WILL GRANT YOU WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE BUT DO YOU CONSIDER IT POSSIBLE THAT NOT ALL IMPORTERS WILL BE MAKING HUGE MARGINS, SO THEY SHOULDNT ALL BE TARRED WITH THE SAME BRUSH??

WHAT IS TOTALLY INEQUITABLE IS THAT PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS CAN OFTEN IMPORT GOODS AND BECAUSE IT GOES TO A PRIVATE ADDRESS THEY WILL USUALLY NOT ATTRACT CLEARANCE CHARGES, GST, ETC ETC. A RECOGNISED IMPORTER WITH A COMMERCIAL ADDRESS WILL INCUR CLEARANCE CHARGES, FUEL SURCHARGES AND GST ON TOP OF EVERYTHING, THAT REALLY BALLOONS THE LANDED COST. ADD TO THAT THE COST OF STOCKING THE PRODUCT, PROMOTING IT AND EMPLOYING STAFF, OH AND FORGOT TAX, COMPLIANCE CHARGES AND OTHER GENERAL BUSINESS OVERHEADS ETC ETC ETC.

SO ITS A BONUS FOR THE INTERNET PARASITE COMPANIES IN THE STATES TO SHIP STUFF TO OTHER COUNTRIES BECAUSE THEY HAVE BORNE LITTLE COST IN PROMOTING THE PRODUCT FURTHER AFIELD.

TO MAKE IT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS WHO CHOOSE TO DEAL OFFSHORE SHOULD BE JUST AS LIABLE TO PAY CLEARANCE CHARGES AND GST AS A RECOGNISED IMPORTER. THE CURRENT DUAL STANDARDS ARE NOTHING SHORT OF HYPOCRISY.

SO WHEN SOME OF YOUR JOBS ARE THREATENED BECAUSE OF MARKET FORCES YOU MAY CARE TO THINK IN TERMS OF THE BIG PICTURE, RATHER THAN HAVING A ''WAREHOUSE'' MENTALITY. BUT I DO ACCEPT THAT OUR NATIONAL PROBLEM OF LOW WAGES AND HIGH TAXES FEEDS THIS WHOLE PROBLEM.

ITS NOTABLE THAT BECAUSE A NUMBER OF CONTRIBUTORS HAVE LOGGED IN EXCESS OF 1000 POSTS THEY FEEL THEY HAVE AN AIR OF AUTHORITY WITHIN THIS FORUM FARCE.

**Finn** · 12th March 2006, 21:24

Clean Cut, I understand where you're coming from but what's happening is normal for a deregulated, free market economy. The consumers will decide, after all they are the ones that earn the money and they are the ones who now have choice.

Think back a few years when having a car with electric windows let alone air con was a luxury for the average kiwi. Now these are in reach for the masses. Vehicle importers have had to drop their prices. We're all better off.

Given NZ is a tiny market, isolated from the rest of the world, the issue is intensified. Kiwi's have been paying over inflated prices for stuff for too long. An example is Ducati. As much as I would like to support Haldanes, I wasn't going to pay $43,000 for a Duc 999S when I could have landed one ex US for $30,000. The difference would have gone to the Australian agents anyway.

One of the companies I owned imported ex lease and end of line laptops from the US. At the time a comparible model was selling here for $2000. We sold the same model for $1100. In one weekend we sold 160 units mostly to students. Things went well for a year then the local importers sharpened their pencils and we were screwed. Well done, move on.

Owning a business in these times is difficult and only fools sit back and do nothing when the market is changing around them. You must constantly reinvent yourself and look ahead. Sometimes if you can't beat em, join em.

I for one love choice.

**denill** · 13th March 2006, 06:46

Originally Posted by CLEAN CUT

I WILL GRANT YOU WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE BUT DO YOU CONSIDER IT POSSIBLE THAT NOT ALL IMPORTERS WILL BE MAKING HUGE MARGINS, SO THEY SHOULDNT ALL BE TARRED WITH THE SAME BRUSH??

Yes, but as their product will be competitive on a NZ shelf - it will not be worth the candle to buy their product offshore.

In the case of the Arai "NZ$480 brand new. Same helmet here in NZ, at least $1600." scenario - $60 bucks of GST still makes the Arai bloody good value!!!

The rest of your arguement can best be countered by just reading Finn's very commonsense and perfectly reasonable rebuttal.

You have a good point CLEAN CUT when you write "BUT I DO ACCEPT THAT OUR NATIONAL PROBLEM OF LOW WAGES AND HIGH TAXES FEEDS THIS WHOLE PROBLEM". You voted for the socialist Helen (again) !!!!

Abd hey CLEAN CUT - cut the caps, let your choice of words make the impact - not your screaming...........

**CLEAN CUT** · 13th March 2006, 07:06

Originally Posted by Finn

Clean Cut, I understand where you're coming from but what's happening is normal for a deregulated, free market economy. The consumers will decide, after all they are the ones that earn the money and they are the ones who now have choice.

Think back a few years when having a car with electric windows let alone air con was a luxury for the average kiwi. Now these are in reach for the masses. Vehicle importers have had to drop their prices. We're all better off.

Given NZ is a tiny market, isolated from the rest of the world, the issue is intensified. Kiwi's have been paying over inflated prices for stuff for too long. An example is Ducati. As much as I would like to support Haldanes, I wasn't going to pay $43,000 for a Duc 999S when I could have landed one ex US for $30,000. The difference would have gone to the Australian agents anyway.

One of the companies I owned imported ex lease and end of line laptops from the US. At the time a comparible model was selling here for $2000. We sold the same model for $1100. In one weekend we sold 160 units mostly to students. Things went well for a year then the local importers sharpened their pencils and we were screwed. Well done, move on.

Owning a business in these times is difficult and only fools sit back and do nothing when the market is changing around them. You must constantly reinvent yourself and look ahead. Sometimes if you can't beat em, join em.

I for one love choice.

WELL SAID AND I AGREE WITH MUCH OF WHAT YOU SAY. BUT I STILL SAY CASUAL IMPORTS SHOULD STILL ATTRACT THE SAME CLEARANCE AND TAX CHARGES. EFFECTIVELY BUSINESSES ARE SUBSIDISING THIS INEQUITY AT PRESENT. DO YOU NOT THINK THAT BUSINESSES AND ''MIDDLE'' NEW ZEALANDERS ARE BEING RIPPED BY THOSE AT THE TOP OF THE TREE AND THOSE AT THE BOTTOM?

MY OWN LIVELIHOOD IS RUNNING ALONG WELL AND I COULD HAVE THE ATTITUDE ''I'M ALRIGHT MATE'' BUT FRANKLY I THINK THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH MANY IN THIS COUNTRY.

**imdying** · 13th March 2006, 07:59

Originally Posted by CLEAN CUT

WHAT IS TOTALLY INEQUITABLE IS THAT PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS CAN OFTEN IMPORT GOODS AND BECAUSE IT GOES TO A PRIVATE ADDRESS THEY WILL USUALLY NOT ATTRACT CLEARANCE CHARGES, GST, ETC ETC. A RECOGNISED IMPORTER WITH A COMMERCIAL ADDRESS WILL INCUR CLEARANCE CHARGES, FUEL SURCHARGES AND GST ON TOP OF EVERYTHING, THAT REALLY BALLOONS THE LANDED COST. ADD TO THAT THE COST OF STOCKING THE PRODUCT, PROMOTING IT AND EMPLOYING STAFF, OH AND FORGOT TAX, COMPLIANCE CHARGES AND OTHER GENERAL BUSINESS OVERHEADS ETC ETC ETC.

TO MAKE IT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS WHO CHOOSE TO DEAL OFFSHORE SHOULD BE JUST AS LIABLE TO PAY CLEARANCE CHARGES AND GST AS A RECOGNISED IMPORTER. THE CURRENT DUAL STANDARDS ARE NOTHING SHORT OF HYPOCRISY.

ITS NOTABLE THAT BECAUSE A NUMBER OF CONTRIBUTORS HAVE LOGGED IN EXCESS OF 1000 POSTS THEY FEEL THEY HAVE AN AIR OF AUTHORITY WITHIN THIS FORUM FARCE.

I totally agree about the inequity, and it's a real problem for importers to be sure. Fighting it with a conventional business model isn't going to work though, legislating it will only go some way towards redressing it also. Perhaps a more hybrid model, with the bike shops following the online sales model, and thus reducing their overheads would be effective. The high margins of yesteryear are dead either way to be sure.

I'm not sure that and 1000+ posters here feel they have an air of authority though. I think you'll find that the 1000+ poster that told you to pull your head in is a moderator though, so if there is an air of authority it comes from that, and that's justified imho.

Top effort on the last posts though, if you drop the accusing tone and discuss it somewhat civily, people are more than happy to talk with you... bling for you

**mstriumph** · 13th March 2006, 17:30

Originally Posted by CLEAN CUT

CHEAP SHOTS GUYS, ESPECIALLY THE CRUDE REFERENCES AND EXPLETIVES THAT SHOW A NOTABLE LACK OF BREEDING.

YOU WANT YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO AND WOULD LIKELY SELL YOUR GRANDMOTHERS FOR SIXPENCE. YOU ARE A MERCENARY LOT, THAT IS VERY CLEAR.

- erm - and it DOESN'T display an obsession with the almighty $ and a preoccupation with assigning 'worth' and 'desireability' to things based on their
newness, price or earning capacity [as evidenced by your sneering at someone's '9 year old Kwaka', bragging about how well your business is doing and being disparaging about what you assume to be the purchasing capacity of others?] .....

hmmmmmmmmm come to think about it, this sort of 'know it all, self-agrandising, arrogance reminds me of someone ELSE on this forum .............

mebbe NOT a troll - mebbe just another alter?

**CLEAN CUT** · 13th March 2006, 19:55

Originally Posted by imdying

I totally agree about the inequity, and it's a real problem for importers to be sure. Fighting it with a conventional business model isn't going to work though, legislating it will only go some way towards redressing it also. Perhaps a more hybrid model, with the bike shops following the online sales model, and thus reducing their overheads would be effective. The high margins of yesteryear are dead either way to be sure.

I'm not sure that and 1000+ posters here feel they have an air of authority though. I think you'll find that the 1000+ poster that told you to pull your head in is a moderator though, so if there is an air of authority it comes from that, and that's justified imho.

Top effort on the last posts though, if you drop the accusing tone and discuss it somewhat civily, people are more than happy to talk with you... bling for you

YOUR FIRST PARAGRAPH PRETTY MUCH SUMS UP HOW THE NET HAS MOVED THE GOALPOSTS. BUT THE REASON TO SHAKE MY HEAD ANGRILY IS THAT THERE IS THIS SIMPLISTIC ASSUMPTION THAT MANY IMPORTERS AND RETAILERS ARE ''THE BIG BAD WOLF'' WHEN IN FACT MANY MARGINS ARE VERY SLENDER. WHERE IT IS DIFFICULT BALANCING MARGINS IS THAT IN NEW ZEALAND WE SIMPLY DONT HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO TRULY MIMIC RETAILING ON THE AMERICAN MODEL. HEAVILY REDUCED MARGINS CAN ONLY GO HAND IN HAND WITH VOLUME SALES, THATS OKAY IF YOU HAVE AN AUDIENCE OF TENS OF MILLIONS. LITTLE WONDER THAT MANY OUTLETS ARE GUNSHY ABOUT CARRYING LARGE VOLUMES OF STOCK IN WHAT IS AN EXTREMELY TRICKY AND FICKLE MARKET.

**CLEAN CUT** · 13th March 2006, 19:58

Originally Posted by mstriumph

- erm - and it DOESN'T display an obsession with the almighty $ and a preoccupation with assigning 'worth' and 'desireability' to things based on their
newness, price or earning capacity [as evidenced by your sneering at someone's '9 year old Kwaka', bragging about how well your business is doing and being disparaging about what you assume to be the purchasing capacity of others?] .....

hmmmmmmmmm come to think about it, this sort of 'know it all, self-agrandising, arrogance reminds me of someone ELSE on this forum .............

mebbe NOT a troll - mebbe just another alter?

PURCHASING CAPACITY WOULD BE IMPROVED WITH A SENSIBLE TAX REGIME, AS OPPOSED TO THE CURRENT SYSTEM OF THEFT, NOW THAT IS ARROGANCE

**CLEAN CUT** · 13th March 2006, 20:24

Originally Posted by denill

Yes, but as their product will be competitive on a NZ shelf - it will not be worth the candle to buy their product offshore.

In the case of the Arai "NZ$480 brand new. Same helmet here in NZ, at least $1600." scenario - $60 bucks of GST still makes the Arai bloody good value!!!

The rest of your arguement can best be countered by just reading Finn's very commonsense and perfectly reasonable rebuttal.

You have a good point CLEAN CUT when you write "BUT I DO ACCEPT THAT OUR NATIONAL PROBLEM OF LOW WAGES AND HIGH TAXES FEEDS THIS WHOLE PROBLEM". You voted for the socialist Helen (again) !!!!

Abd hey CLEAN CUT - cut the caps, let your choice of words make the impact - not your screaming...........

Come to think of it there are zillions of detestable things that I would do rather than EVER vote for the Primeliar