Trials tyres on enduro bikes.

[Motu]

This is a question or a lesson,depending on your experiance...

There is a lot of talk on the net about this,every forum has a thread somewhere,this is more an article,but gives the story.
http://www.chilternhills.info/Trials%20tyres.htm

Even though I've had considerable experiance with trials tyres,it's still a scary thing to do,take off your monster knob and fit a smooth looking trials tyre.I gotta laugh though - I remember back in the 70s and 80s I'd spew when I saw the Yanks riding trials bikes with knobs,they didn't have clue...and now half the field at a race are on trials tyres.

I've been riding trials bikes for 25 years,so have a pretty good idea what they are capable of in the traction department.I also used to run trials tyres on the dirt track,and once rode Shane Scanlon's TE510 which held the Rosebank No1 Flattracker plate - this bike had a summer Michelin on the rear,very soft...and a winter Michelin on the front,very,very soft.This bike was well set up of course and could slide like it was born to do it,drifting both front and rear wheels in total confidance...it was the tyres that allowd it to do that.In 1976/79 I ran a competition trials tyre for gravel and street,also had a shot on Rosebank with it.This was before the days of motard,and I didn't know it,but that's what I was doing.I guess I was a pretty agressive rider as a young fulla,and I found if I pushed it really hard I could slide the rear tyre on seal with confidance,once out there it just seemed to stick even with the rear stepped out.But I ripped it up pretty quick,the blocks were flying off.I tried one of my old dirt track tyres over Xmas,and ripped the knobs off it...but not before I found it had good traction....

So...rather than buy a sharp new knob,I was thinking of going for a cometition trials tyre.Trouble is I still intend to use the DT230 on the road,and that will destroy a Michelin,IRC or Dunlop - so I was thinking of giving the Mitas E-10 a go.These are half way between a serious trials tyre and the crap trials universal that every trail bike came with in the 70s and 80s.The compound is not as super soft (you can twist the knobs on a trials tyre 90 deg with finger and thumb) and the sidewalls stiffer.But will the harder compound and stiffer carcase lose the benifits off road? Oh,decisions,decisions...

[WRT]

What about in the sand tho? Is the grip ok then? He talks about mud and stones, but I think sand could be a whole other kettle of fish.

[Motu]

You need special tyres for sand and mud though... these areas a trials tyre might not be too good at.But we ride trials bikes in much more muddy conditions than you would take an enduro bike...if there is anything under the mud...rocks,tree roots,then the trials tyre will be superb...but a swamp? Much aggression required.A smoother tyre in sand is not a disadvantage,a knob just digs a hole.Any tyre but a paddle is going to be in trouble in soft sand.

[WRT]

So what you are saying is that with a trials tyre, you can run on pretty much all terrain about as well as a normal knobbly, but also run it on the road?

I reckon you should put some on, just so we can see how you get along with it!

[Motu]

The soft carcase and compound of the trials tyre will allow it to mould to the terrain and put down a bigger footprint,it'll be superior in all conditions apart from deep mud or sand...both conditions where it finds nothing to purchase on.

I have two sets of wheels,so can set my bike up for on or off road...I'd like my off road set up to be NHS knobs,and my road/adventure set up to be DOT.Most competition trials tyres are DOT,or approved for Euro enduro (forget the designation),just by knob spacing alone - although the IRC I was looking at the other day said competition use only.That's why I'm leaning towards the Mitas E-01,to give me better on road performance...but how much off road will it lose? I'll do it,and take both wheels out with me,that'll prove it anyway....

[NordieBoy]

Waiting with keen antici...........pation.

Wouldn't mind using trials type tyres on the seXR on some of the laidback trail rides.
Apart from the 3 swamps we went through on the weekend...

[laRIKin]

I have read on few other bike sites that a lot of people have tried them and like them better.
That is unless you are riding in mud.
The only thing is, if you ride fast or on the road they fly apart.
A mate of mine sold his old trials tire (no good for comp use) to a mate of his.
Well he rode from ChCh to the west coast.
He got to the west coast but the tire was stuffed and he rang my mate up to pick him up so he could get home again.

Remember to old universal tires? (looked the same as trials tires)
We rode those thing every where, with no problems.

[Motu]

As a (very basic) trials rider I have no problems in mud....apart from what you'd expect.They'll find the worstest muddiest corner of the property and set sections there,if there is a swamp,all the better.You (I) may need to change technique,become a more thinking rider,feeling for the traction that has become available to you.

As I said in my first post,I've riden competion trials tyres on the road before,they certainly get stressed out,but didn't fly apart...mind you I don't go fast,only around corners.My tyre did fly apart at Xmas,but it was a 20 yr old tyre,and the knobs falling apart were ones I'd cut for the dirt track.The flattrackers running 18in front and rear could get some serious angles of lean,and I got my dirttracker lower on an oval than I ever went on the seal.I noticed over Xmas that the two rows of side knobs were contacting in corners,you could see the wear marks - so the tyre flattens out and the footprint is huge,you aren't just on the small side knobs,but two rows of knob.

[chris]

Riverhead in the winter on trials tyres?

[laRIKin]

Well I do not know, I'm not a tire expert.
You maybe OK on trials tires on the road if you are not to hard on them.

But hey they were designed for trials use, that is a light bike at low speeds and low tire pressure.
And are only a two ply tire (off the top of my head) and are rated for 165 kg's and 130 kph. No good to me or my bike.

I do know 3 people that will not be trying them out on the road. (my mate his friend and me)

[Motu]

Most dirt bikes these days weigh as much as my old twinshock.As I said,I don't go fast,120kph is pushing it for me.

As you can see,there is some resistance to you accepting a trials tyre will be better than a knob....even I am a bit doubtful.But there is a very big swing to them overseas....why not be on the leading edge?

[Motu]

Riverhead in the winter on trials tyres?

I'd happily go in there on the wettest day of the year on my old TLR200,and probably get further than a trail bike on winter knobs.I'd be a little worried on a trail bike with trials tyres...but why? Someones got to try....and I'm really not the person as I'm well out of loop as far as ability goes.

[chris]

I'd happily go in there on the wettest day of the year on my old TLR200,and probably get further than a trail bike on winter knobs.I'd be a little worried on a trail bike with trials tyres...but why? Someones got to try....and I'm really not the person as I'm well out of loop as far as ability goes.

Not for me I'm afraid. Taking my TLR250 to Riverhead in the depths of winter doesn't appeal.

I'd be a little worried on a trail bike with trials tyres.

So is the discussion centred more around the bike than the tyre?

A trials bike on trials tyres V trail bike on knobbies.....

[Motu]

.
So is the discussion centred more around the bike than the tyre?
....

More about thinking out of the square...''we've always done it this way'' .Breakthroughs are achieved by trying something different,not doing it the same way everytime.I know a trials tyre is capable of far more than trials,and now there is a big swing to the tyre overseas for enduro riding...just trying to open a few eyes up here.How about doing a test on a long termer in the mag - you got nothing to lose apart from a day out riding....

[chris]

there is a big swing to the tyre overseas for enduro riding...just trying to open a few eyes up here.How about doing a test on a long termer in the mag - you got nothing to lose apart from a day out riding....

I just can't see Humpster riding an Enduro with trials tyres fitted. If there was anything in it, he and John Nic would have tried it I reckon and JN knows both disciplines rather well!!!
But Vege likes nothing more than a slightly madcap idea....