Taranaki farmer aquitted

[Pixie]

It affects bikers directly sometimes. I remember when bikes had free access to all the forested areas at Riverhead and Woodhill. Miles and miles of tracks that are now closed off on the grounds of "economic necessity". If forests are businesses, they're not going to let us burble through them for free.

It's more to do with the owners being accountable if Joe MXer rides into a tree on their property.
Although I can't see the connection,Osh can

[cowpoos]

No it wasn't. It was a statement released by ACC. Why shoot the messenger?

why not...the media always put a opinionated spin on shit anyway...shoot em anyway... is ther any impartial/nuteral jorn's left in this country? even markus lush has developed a more opinionated stance on certian issuses since he started regular talkback with radio live....

[Krusti]

The fact still remains that Farming is one of the highest risk occupations when it comes to work place injuries.

It stems partly from our she'll be right I know what I'm doing attitude as well as it will never happen to me.

As a farmer and Agricultural contracter I have seen many things that have made me fume. Kids playing on silage stacks while heavy machinery work around them, kids racing around farms on quads at speed without any supervision or safety gear, adults clear felling pine trees with no prior experiance, Mum or dad riding quads down a road with said vehicle overloaded with kids,then we get to the outright unbelievable when my wife was driving to work the other morning at 5 am and narrowly missed plowing into the back of a totally unlit tractor travelling down the road!

I have had to learn from personal experiance that I am not bullet proof and I am in an occupation where you have to be able to undertake a large number of tasks that some people have spent their life training to be good at just one of these. Therefore even more care is needed.

It has not been untill I began Ag contracting that I have realised the full extent of my responsibilty and how dangerous machinery can be.

If I hurt myself through my own careless attitude then I'm a dick and deserve what ever befalls me.

If mine or someone elses child is injured or killed as a result of my stupidity then I am culpable. How should I be punished? Well thats up to a group of my peers to decide.

[What?]

If mine or someone elses child is injured or killed as a result of my stupidity then I am culpable. How should I be punished? Well thats up to a group of my peers to decide.

Which is exactly what happened - a group of his peers said there was no point in convicting him. And they were right - partly beacuase there would be no punishment greater that what he is giving himself, and partly because there is no point. Convict the man, throw him in jail, and after a month every-one has forgotten him and his sad story, so it all gets repeated anyway.
The upside is that all the publicity might prevent a few similar stupid mistakes, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Winston001]

Which is exactly what happened - a group of his peers said there was no point in convicting him. And they were right - partly beacuase there would be no punishment greater that what he is giving himself, and partly because there is no point. Convict the man, throw him in jail, and after a month every-one has forgotten him and his sad story, so it all gets repeated anyway.
The upside is that all the publicity might prevent a few similar stupid mistakes, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I disagree. The point of the law is that it is dispassionate and applies equally to all persons at all times. We don't have special laws with reduced charges because we feel sorry for the person charged. IMHO the jury got it wrong but whats done is done.

The better result would have been a verdict of guilty. Following that, the Judge would have been free to consider matters of sympathy in mitigation of penalty. Mr Vanner would probably have received a suspended sentence or no sentence at all.

What gets overlooked in this emotional debate is that a person is dead. Many people focus instead on the family and forget the death. The little girl had a right to be protected and the prosecution occurred because she wasn't.

[Grahameeboy]

I disagree. The point of the law is that it is dispassionate and applies equally to all persons at all times. We don't have special laws with reduced charges because we feel sorry for the person charged. IMHO the jury got it wrong but whats done is done.

The better result would have been a verdict of guilty. Following that, the Judge would have been free to consider matters of sympathy in mitigation of penalty. Mr Vanner would probably have received a suspended sentence or no sentence at all.

What gets overlooked in this emotional debate is that a person is dead. Many people focus instead on the family and forget the death. The little girl had a right to be protected and the prosecution occurred because she wasn't.

Totally agree........

[Hitcher]

I'm not saying townies piss me off...just some of the concepts and whinging I hear directed at us so called grumpy whinging farmers piss me off because because they don't know what the hell they're talking about...

I won't bring up my whakapapa at this point. Let's just say I feel well qualified to have made the comments I did. We may discuss this further over a beer at some stage.

[Hitcher]

Mr HItcher

have you ever done anything that afterwards you thought to yourself<,, Oh my God, i shouldnt have done that--,, failing the previous "have you ever DONE ANYTHING AT ALL???????

I have done many things in my life that I am not particularly proud of. In circumstances where I was at fault or to blame I would like to think I had been able to take the consequences on the chin and hopefully learn from them, rather than looking to blame the "system" or the Police.

[Lou Girardin]

Mr Vanner would probably have received a suspended sentence or no sentence at all.

Except that, regardless of penalty, that conviction would be with him for the rest of his life.
As he was quoted, What if he wanted to take his family to Disneyland? He couldn't with that conviction.
He also didn't want his kids to grow up and know that he'd been found guilty of killing their sister. That fact of her death is bad enough.

[Grahameeboy]

Except that, regardless of penalty, that conviction would be with him for the rest of his life.
As he was quoted, What if he wanted to take his family to Disneyland? He couldn't with that conviction.
He also didn't want his kids to grow up and know that he'd been found guilty of killing their sister. That fact of her death is bad enough.

I am a bit worried about you Lou...coming on all sympathetic in your old age.

I doubt he would be stopped from going to Disneyland and I am pretty sure that his kids would understand and dare I mention it but there is always counselling and the support of the community and yes, in anticipation of you saying something, whilst I agree with the process that would not stop me supporting the geezer if I was a friend in the community.

[Ixion]

A conviction for manslaughter would certainly be a major problem if he wished to enter another country , Disneyland or otherwise. Remeber that little bit on the immigration cards about criminal offences. As far as immigration in another country is concerned, a conviction is a conviction. Just the same as if he got 10 years. I think people are being VERY naive also in assuming that in the event of a conviction he would not have gone to gaol. I'm pretty certain he would have.

[cowpoos]

I won't bring up my whakapapa at this point. Let's just say I feel well qualified to have made the comments I did. We may discuss this further over a beer at some stage.

if I hav picked up on the right under tones about your whakapapa which is a different subject I doubt you'll havemuch negitive argument from me about passed wrongs [and present ones]

but yeah...beers good

[SPman]

A conviction for manslaughter would certainly be a major problem if he wished to enter another country , Disneyland or otherwise. Remeber that little bit on the immigration cards about criminal offences. As far as immigration in another country is concerned, a conviction is a conviction. Just the same as if he got 10 years. I think people are being VERY naive also in assuming that in the event of a conviction he would not have gone to gaol. I'm pretty certain he would have.

I think you are refused entry to the USA and, probably most other countries, if you have a conviction with a penalty of 2 or more years, or a drug conviction.
I think you are right in that he would have been sentenced to a Gaol term, of some sort.

[What?]

I disagree. The point of the law is that it is dispassionate and applies equally to all persons at all times. We don't have special laws with reduced charges because we feel sorry for the person charged. IMHO the jury got it wrong but whats done is done.

Mate, in principle, I agree. BUT, in practice, what point would there be to a conviction? The sad fact is, convicting this man is most unlikely to prevent the same thing happening with someone else (well proven throughout history - man does not learn from others' mistakes).
Unfortunately, the idea that the law is dispassionate and applies equally to all people at all times is simply not true. It should be, but it isn't; never has been and probably never will be. For one of a zillion examples, if I go out right now and burn off some scrub, I will get royally shafted by the fire service and the courts, yet Ms Greenie Fitzsimons got away with it. All because of who we are.
Perhaps the jury in this case made the wrong decision for the right reasons?

[Lou Girardin]

There was a letter from a board member of the Child Safety Foundation in the Herald on Saturday. This person believes that ALL parents whose children are harmed or killed through their inattention should be charged.
If he got his way, parents will have to have their kids under surveilance every second they are home, possibly kept inside out of harms way.
They will no longer be kids, they'll be pets.
I'm just glad that I grew up in a society that recognised that accidents happen (and they were few) and that people have to be left alone to make their mistakes and learn from them.