Radar gun accuracy

[Ultrapix]

I was ticketed for speeding last week by a cop who caught me with his radar gun. Not sure what sort of make or model...are they still using Hawks? Anyway, I thought the ticket was unfair and asked him to show me a certificate of calibration for the reading he was using as his basis for ticketing me. He said his car was full of certificates, but flatly refused to show me a certificate of calibration for the radar gun, saying that the only way I would get to see it would be in a court of law. Got really shirty about the whole thing actually.

Seeing as his case is built almost entirely on the fact that he measured my speed and then ticketed me based on that measurement (fine and demerit points), shouldn't I have the right to some proof that that measurement is accurate? I sure as hell don't trust the idea that they've now got a few months to produce that document, and find it pretty suspicious that he absolutely would not show certification on the spot. I would have thought that a certificate like that was mandatory to carry in the car. We have to display warrants and registration stickers and carry our license with us; why should it be different for them?

Does anyone think I have/don't have a leg to stand on if I choose to take it to court? What do I risk if I contest the ticket and lose? Can Joe Public competently represent himself in court against the law?

[madboy]

In short, I think unless you've got a very good lawyer, or you get very good advice from a very good lawyer and represent yourself very well - you're f***ed.

Just because the rules say they should do something doesn't mean to say they have to.

Others may have a different opinion.

[scumdog]

See my P.M for what it's worth.

[marty]

certification is not carried in the car. it is held in the office. the daily log is in the car.

hawks stopped being used by HP in '99. they use stalkers now. was it a radar gun (car mounted) or a laser gun?

why was your ticket unfair? were you under the speed limit? which area of enzed is this in?

[spudchucka]

The radar units display a sticker that indicates when the next calibration is due. The actual certificates of acuracy are not kept in the cars. They would probably end up getting lost or destroyed if the were.

If you defend the ticket you should write in the the infringement bureau and request full disclosure. You will receive a copy of the certificate of accuracy as part of disclosure.

The fact that you weren't presented with a copy of the certificate of accuracy on the roadside is no defence.

[Hoon]

When trying to get off tickets, being polite and apologetic gets better results than being difficult.

If you believe he made a serious error and ticketed you when you know you were well inside the speed limit then yes fight it but be prepared to fork out much $$$. If you contest it and lose you will also have to pay court fees on top of the fine.

But if you sped and got caught then take your punishment like a man and stop wasting peoples time.

[Streetwise]

If you where stopped and got the ticket, Your Fucked, Friends of mine have tried all to get off tickets many times and they have only won once, A good win i must say, but still only once.

[Lou Girardin]

Why do you say it was unfair? Weren't you speeding or was the speed he claimed not correct?

[marty]

your post seems to insinuate that the radar did not have certification, and that in the months between you being ticketed and receiving proof that the radar was certified, that any certification would be somehow obtained.

a long shot, but it's worth it. that sort of thing goes on all the time. let us know when your court date is, so we can come and watch

[Ixion]

How d'you even know it was a real cop? Did you see his warrant card ? And even if he was how do you know he was trained to use the radar gun? Did you see his training certificate.

Are you sure that it really was a public road? Have you checked when the road was gazetted. Lots of funny stuff happened with roads in the old days .

Lots of things you could have a go at.

[Skyryder]

How d'you even know it was a real cop? Did you see his warrant card ? And even if he was how do you know he was trained to use the radar gun? Did you see his training certificate.

Are you sure that it really was a public road? Have you checked when the road was gazetted. Lots of funny stuff happened with roads in the old days .

Lots of things you could have a go at.

Was he wearing fluro vest clothing. Got talking to an OSH rep the other day. Seems sometime in the dim distant past this guy was pulled over for some traffic infringment. Cop got nasty because of disputed speed. Anyway it turned out that if the OSH guy was issued a ticket, the cop or his station?? could expect a full safety audit on account that he was not wearing his fluro clothing. Apparently there is some requirment for the Highway Patrol to do so. Won't get you out of a ticket but you can put in a complaint to OSH. Another thing this guy told me is that you can detain the officer while you seek legal advice. This could be done via cell phone. Anyone heard of this? This guy seemed to know what he was talking about.


Skyryder

[Ultrapix]

How d'you even know it was a real cop? Did you see his warrant card ? And even if he was how do you know he was trained to use the radar gun? Did you see his training certificate.

Are you sure that it really was a public road? Have you checked when the road was gazetted. Lots of funny stuff happened with roads in the old days .

Lots of things you could have a go at.

Yes, it's all open for debate huh.

Mind you, you'd think a cop would be able to copy a date of birth correctly. From the 5th of October on the license, he somehow got to the 31st of November on the ticket. Nice to see some high calibre individuals holding positions of authority.

The context of how the ticket was issued, was, I thought, unfair, but technically correct. I genuinely thought I deserved a warning, but his insistence on issuing the ticket was what motivated me to get him on a technicality. I don't believe in putting up with whatever rubbish the police see fit to hand down. This is a motorcyclists site; I would have expected a bit more fighting spirit from the members here. Do you really all believe that speeding is dangerous and needs to be controlled so heavily? If so, I expect to see a flood of GSX-R600's (etc) for sale in this week's Trader.. followed closely by want ads for GN250's and KR150's. Restricted at that (retarded ignition, 4500rpm limiter and only 1st and 2nd gears to use), with flouro jackets, permanent training wheels and braking parachutes for a completely safe motorcycling experience. Ahhhh, isn't that better?

Or have you all been worn down from years of this sort of relationship with the Police, where all that ever happens is you waste your own time and money trying to defend yourselves? I'm not proposing a revolution here; just that we question the power of such an authority to punish us for something as trivial as this, and show our objection by challenging those powers and enforcements when we genuinely think they are being abused.

[Ultrapix]

Was he wearing fluro vest clothing. Got talking to an OSH rep the other day. Seems sometime in the dim distant past this guy was pulled over for some traffic infringment. Cop got nasty because of disputed speed. Anyway it turned out that if the OSH guy was issued a ticket, the cop or his station?? could expect a full safety audit on account that he was not wearing his fluro clothing. Apparently there is some requirment for the Highway Patrol to do so. Won't get you out of a ticket but you can put in a complaint to OSH. Another thing this guy told me is that you can detain the officer while you seek legal advice. This could be done via cell phone. Anyone heard of this? This guy seemed to know what he was talking about.


Skyryder

Oh, it gets better; I've heard that because of a throwback to early 20th Century law making, Police officers can't issue a ticket (etc) without their hat. Must be some official form of identification or something; perhaps the uniform isn't complete without it and therefore can't legally identify them as Police officers? A guy I knew at school was arrested for stealing a policeman's hat (pub crawl), but I never got to hear the full details of what actually happened around that one.

Sure though, you do hear from time to time of people having cases thrown out because of technicalities. I'm sure that for every innocent person this happens to (The Kerrigans ), it works in favour of someone suspiciously suspicious (OJ).

So is it the right or wrong thing to do? And if you were in my shoes, would you be giving it a go?

[cowpoos]

Yes, it's all open for debate huh.

Mind you, you'd think a cop would be able to copy a date of birth correctly. From the 5th of October on the license, he somehow got to the 31st of November on the ticket. Nice to see some high calibre individuals holding positions of authority.

That my friend might acctually get you off the ticket...now take that to a lawyer that does alot of traffic infingments,etc

[gixermike]

if you want to look at the accuracy of hand held laser speed guns at the moment, have a look on www.motorcyclenews.com and search for it. There has been loads in the press in the uk about their innacuracy on bikes. They recently got a 40mph (all accurate and calibrated) reading on a bike sitting on it's sidestand. apparently it has to do with scatter due to the angular shape of the bikes front fairing etc. Also found they quite often pick up wheel speeds, not bike speed....and the top of the wheel is going twice as fast relatively.
I'm pretty sure most forces world wide will use differently badged models of the same thing.

Mike