mid corner gravel rocks the party

[Drew]

[QUOTE=marty][QUOTE=FzerozeroT]

1. coming up to the corner the gravel is not apparant
2. i pulled into the slow trafic lane to avoid the traffic coming up behind me
3. doing about 30 kph after braking
4. turned into corner
5. front wheel slid out

1. what is the stuff sitting in the brand new curbing, or covering the fog line in one of your pix?
2. it looks wide enough to put a truck in - i presume that's what it's for
3. fair enuf
4. as you do
5. as it does when there is fresh seal, stones etc....


come on man - it's riding on the road ffs. it could have been anything - i went around french pass for a blast the other day - crested a rising left hander with the sun in my eyes at about 120k, and rode between 2 sheep dogs trotting down the road about 2 metres apart.........if i had have hit them it may have been someone elses contribution to my demise, but it would have been my fault for not taking ALL REASONABLE CARE. your insurer is trying to get out of paying, & the council will never pay. go back to your insurer and tell them - i pay my premiums for this, fix it. it is then their problem to go to the council, not yours. that's what you are paying for them to do.

And had you hit one of those sheep dogs, you would have been looking for the nearest farmer to insert your boot into anally.
I have been paid out by the council so should this guy

[marty]

And had you hit one of those sheep dogs, you would have been looking for the nearest farmer to insert your boot into anally.
I have been paid out by the council so should this guy

i don't think so. riding on the road carries inherent danger. you weigh the risks, and wear the consequences. sorry, but i think that f00t is opushing shit uphill trying to get the council to pay..

[Racey Rider]

I want signs when there's cow shit on the road, diesel, cars on the wrong side, cops ahead, etc. I WANT SIGNS FOR EVERYTHING!
Then nothing will be my fault.
Lou

And signs to show where the signs are.
And I don't want to pay for any of it!

As an example if we complain about gravel on the road, you can just see the signs "Not safe for motorcycles" or "Motorcycles Prohibitied".

And no insurance if you ride in those areas.

[madandy]

Sorry to have to say this- but dropping your bike on a patch of gravel only doing 30km/h says something to me... keep youir eyes on the road, dude.
try hitting one at 100km/h! and keep it rubberside down...then you know what you are doing.

[merv]

No insurance, yep I reckon it would come to this if bikers keep proving it is a high risk activity. That was my point really don't push the councils too hard or else they will retaliate to ensure they don't waste rate payers money and insurance companies will ensure they look after their shareholders.

[Drew]

No insurance, yep I reckon it would come to this if bikers keep proving it is a high risk activity. That was my point really don't push the councils too hard or else they will retaliate to ensure they don't waste rate payers money and insurance companies will ensure they look after their shareholders.

Does that, not also imply, that people involved in organized sport, will no longer be eligable for health insurance.
I think it very unlikely, anyone would stand for being declined inurance, when they have so many legal arguments to support our claim to being eligable.
Also, we already pay so much in the way of premiums, insurance companies make a killing.

[jrandom]

I think it very unlikely, anyone would stand for being declined inurance, when they have so many legal arguments to support our claim to being eligable.

Neither you nor anyone else has legal recourse against an insurance company deciding that it does not wish to assume any particular risk. Full stop. Sorry. If you don't want to 'stand for it' I'm afraid your only option is to start your own insurance company. Not profitable? Perhaps that's why the existing insurers aren't happy to sell those policies.

Do you think I could reasonably take a supermarket to court for refusing to stock and sell something that only *I* wanted to buy? Read this sometime:

http://www.bibliomania.com/2/1/65/112/frameset.html

As Merv has implied, the only *real* option you have is to do what you can to ensure that the market for motorcycle insurance remains viable.

[wkid_one]

Neither you nor anyone else has legal recourse against an insurance company deciding that it does not wish to assume any particular risk. Full stop. Sorry. If you don't want to 'stand for it' I'm afraid your only option is to start your own insurance company. Not profitable? Perhaps that's why the existing insurers aren't happy to sell those policies.

Do you think I could reasonably take a supermarket to court for refusing to stock and sell something that only *I* wanted to buy? Read this sometime:

http://www.bibliomania.com/2/1/65/112/frameset.html

As Merv has implied, the only *real* option you have is to do what you can to ensure that the market for motorcycle insurance remains viable.

Ohhh so true. Same way you can't force a bank to open your account or lend you money - just because you think you are good for it.

At the end of the day - you have to assume some responsibility here. Like Lou said - where does the line get drawn. Do you sue the councils when your bike slips on a white line, or because you hit a tractor pulling out of his field on to the road because you believe they shouldn't have granted access on a blind corner, do you sue them when that 50kph corner actually WAS a 50kph corner.

Gravel happens - and unfortunately there are multitude of reasons for it....maybe a truck carrying metal to a construction site had a loose tail gate - is this the councils responsibility - or do you try and find the driver and sue them?

Hell - do you sue god for having sun strike? (sorry zed/ck).

It is just an accident - stop trying to place blame elsewhere.

It would be like me trying to find the bus that dropped the diesel on the road - and fighting them for the cost of repairing my bike. I didn't - as it was an accident - I should have seen the diesel but didn't and came off, hard.

I wish you luck and hope you will - obviously you need the assurance you are a good rider - and with the signs there you wouldn't have fallen off.

My question is that if you were doing 30kph - how the fuck DIDN'T you see the gravel!

PS - Road signage is no longer the Councils responsibility - it is the contractor completing the works that is responsible for traffic management. After all your hard work - you are just going to get fobbed off by the council as they now contract themselves OUT of this contingent liability. :sneaky2:

[merv]

Does that, not also imply, that people involved in organized sport, will no longer be eligable for health insurance.
I think it very unlikely, anyone would stand for being declined inurance, when they have so many legal arguments to support our claim to being eligable.
Also, we already pay so much in the way of premiums, insurance companies make a killing.

What I was talking about was say you push the Councils too hard by blaming them for your accident it could lead to "Motorcycles Prohibited" type signage whether installed by Councils or their contractors, then what racey rider said was no insurance if you ride in those areas. That was the logic being followed here with no comparison to declining insurance in the first place. Its like if you cause a crash and you are drunk, tough shit no insurance, similarly if you haven't renewed your WOF they can decline paying out because you have not ridden legally. They will happily keep taking your money for the premium but decline paying if you haven't done what you should have when shit happens. So take care blaming others as it can backfire when the others take action to limit their liability.

[Ghost Lemur]

Hell - do you sue god for having sun strike? (sorry zed/ck).

Damn that's a good movie..*-1

*puts it on to watch*

But on the subject of insurance. If I'm ever in the position as some I've heard about paying rediculous amounts for insurance (ie. $3k p.a.). I would rather invest that money myself and take the chance that I'm not going to have an accident til there's a sizable chunk of cash there.

There is another option (it might have been done overseas but hasn't here), and that's to have a co-op/trust situation. In the way that building societies are not-for-profit and do the job of a bank, but rather than trying to add value for their shareholders they work in the best interest of their customers because they are all they have to answer too. So could a co-op insurer. Instead of having to maximise profits, they only need to cover operations. So at least once there was a realatively nice reserve there it would be easy enough for them to lower premiums because the year before saw less accidents therefore they have an added surplus to refund, and the alternately would obviously also be true.
It seems to have worked well enough for those who use it in the banking field I don't understand why no one is going after the insurance side.

/raging lefty-commy rant

*-1= "The Man Who Sued God" starring Billy Connolly.

[Deano]

[QUOTE=wkid_one]

Gravel happens - and unfortunately there are multitude of reasons for it....maybe a truck carrying metal to a construction site had a loose tail gate - is this the councils responsibility - or do you try and find the driver and sue them?

Incidentally, that may constitute an insecure load............

My point is that each case needs to be looked at on its own merits.

Too often, negligence is accepted by a simple, "Oh Im terribly sorry, it was an accident".

Thats not very comforting when someone pulls out in front of you and says, "I didn't see you" - Is that an accident or negligence on the part of the driver ?

A careless driving charge for the above would tend to indicate negligence, but with ACC covering injuries suffered,I understand there are not many options to sue, I may be wrong, but the level of sueing will increase as Govt funding for a "free" medical system decreases, just like in America.

Im not griping about the odd bit of gravel or diesel, but fresh seal with no road signs is an unnecessary hazard if you ask me.

[johno]

They are all accidents, but if they can be mostly prevented by a simple sign, like the loose chip sign, then it should happen. It is common sense to post a warning if a known condition endangers others by being an unforseen problem. If the council knew about the chip, it should signpost it in the usual fashion. We get used to warning signs, (it may be different if there never was any to begin with). My friend canned off at 100k on loose gravel on a gentle bend where the road had been repaired. There was a sign coming from the other direction, but none in our direction. May be a more experienced rider would not have canned off, I don't know, but I hardly think it is relevant, we are all riders of various abilities. Evidently there had been a sign, but it was removed the day before! Needed for somewhere else. Cops very graciously (I kid you not) decided they would not prosecute for careless driving in this case as, after inspection, they acknowledged the danger. They claimed they reported these things to the council all the time, but with no effect. There is a limit to how much personal responsibility we should take. Bikes are a legal form of transport, and we should expect to be treated as such.

[spudchucka]

Whats to say the signs weren't put there by the contractor / council and some dickhead passer by decided to nick them for his lounge decoration, (as they do).

If they were sued I don't think it would be too hard for them to cover their arse's.

Yes all hazards should be sign posted but it is ultimately the road users responsibility to ensure they drive to the conditions.

[wkid_one]

Whats to say the signs weren't put there by the contractor / council and some dickhead passer by decided to nick them for his lounge decoration, (as they do).

If they were sued I don't think it would be too hard for them to cover their arse's.

Yes all hazards should be sign posted but it is ultimately the road users responsibility to ensure they drive to the conditions.

Yup - too many variables and I agree - at the end of the day it is your responsibility to ride to the conditions.

This gravel could have happened anyway......however it just so happened near a construction site. Think yourself lucky that you had slowed to 30kph - had it been on the open road you would have hit it as 100kph+....much bigger mess.

Think how expensive your registration etc would be if the Government had to hire little road signage men (or women (in bikinis)) to go around and signpost every possible hazard?

[scroter]

You should claim on your insurance thats what you have it for and if someone else is to blame then the insurance company will try to make them liable and it should not affect your no claims bonus. however if they cant make anyone else liable then it will. I dont know how long you have had insurance for but if its not long you probably wont have much anyway and usually they dont take all your no claims away jus t some of it.