Question of "Not being allowed to"

**riffer** · 5th May 2004, 09:50

Originally Posted by Jim2

I know where he's coming from, and I think Fathers are massively under valued in NZ in1.

Tell me about it mate.

I could tell you a lot about the family court system in this country, and the bias against men in general, and fathers in particular.

...but unfortunately, as Nick Smith found out, that path leads to criminal conviction.

so, I'll just keep my mouth mostly shut on this subject, and accept my lot.

Some fathers don't even get given the choice to be hugely active members of their children's lives.

**Ghost Lemur** · 5th May 2004, 10:40

Originally Posted by celticno6

Tell me about it mate.

I could tell you a lot about the family court system in this country, and the bias against men in general, and fathers in particular.

...but unfortunately, as Nick Smith found out, that path leads to criminal conviction.

so, I'll just keep my mouth mostly shut on this subject, and accept my lot.

Some fathers don't even get given the choice to be hugely active members of their children's lives.

Yeah the family court system is shocking.

At present I'm still involved in a custody case with my ex. The boys have live with me since I left her. She caused CYPS to be involved when we were together. Has known psychological problems. Was physically abusive in front of children. Been ingaged to 4 different guys since I left (close to 2 years ago) and hasn't seen the boys since xmas (including missing their b'day's at the end of March).

And yet even with her parents, cyps (who said if I get full custody then it's case closed as their concerns were solely related to her abilities), etc all in full support of me it's still been almost two years and $7k (thanks taxpayers for legal aid) later and there is still no end in sight. Every time I get a new letter of a new court date I call my lawyer to see if this is going to be it and find it's just another paperwork filing.

And in the meantime my son's, gf, family, and I are kept in constaint limbo of uncertainty as there is nothing stopping things still going against me.

Don't pity my son's for not seeing her though, my gf of one year and counting is more of a mother to them than they ever had with her. And she's there for the long haul not just when she feels like it.

Besides having a maternal figure in their life, the only thing that concerns me if my ex deciding she wants to pop in and out of their life every six months or so. I would rather she just dissapeared off the face of the earth (which see seems to have done recently) and let Jay (current gf) get on with being their mother. Otherwise they have all this uncertaintly as to why their "mum" doesn't want to see them, etc. They deserve to be in a loving nurturing enviroment, and I'm just lucky I've now found someone with whom I not only have a fantastic relationship with (best I have EVER had), but also someone who 100% loves my son's as much as if she had given birth to them herself.

Once the custody is finally sorted, it'll probably be time to go through the adoption nightmare (we've discussed it and whether or not we get married - both of us come from broken home and have mixed feeling about marriage - we'd both like to ensure the law see's her as their mother just as the boys do).

I'm ranting again I can tell.

**James Deuce** · 5th May 2004, 11:02

Originally Posted by Ghost Lemur

Yeah the family court system is shocking.

(we've discussed it and whether or not we get married - both of us come from broken home and have mixed feeling about marriage - we'd both like to ensure the law see's her as their mother just as the boys do).

I'm ranting again I can tell.

Rant away. Jay will need to adopt the boys, but that can be arranged. Be aware that the biological mother will need to do something physically heinous to be denied access to the lads, emotional torture doesn't seem to rate.

**Holy Roller** · 5th May 2004, 11:09

It's not just the anti father bias but the anti family bias that messing up our country. CYPS can just take children out of a family as happened to a mate because the neighbour made up blatent lies as proved later (much later) but resulted in the marriage splitting over the strain. There was no come back to remedy the situation no concequences for the actions of the worker she was just "following orders".
The stats of mariages lasting are rather dismal these days, I'm blessed with a good wife and family more the grace of God than anything else I guess. My dad split in the 60s mum did a good job bringing us kids up by herself, went without heaps for us, But I wasn't the easiest to keep in line.... one screwed up fatherless kid..... wasn't so common in my days but it appears to be the norm these days. And the government isn't helping with its anti family policies being promoted from a childless she nazi ....just me raving again.....

sorry

**Hitcher** · 5th May 2004, 11:34

Good well argued opinions here folks. A compelling thread approaching "classic" status!!

**James Deuce** · 5th May 2004, 11:49

Number one son is beautifully behaved (as much as a 3 year old can be) and the only "symptom" of son number two arriving is bedtime rages. We had to register with CYFS and Plunket to be allowed to use the necessary discipline to get him to bed at night. It's just about all over now, but at its peak there was lots of very loud screaming from number one son. Not because we were beating him mind, but because he felt left out because he was being put to bed - lots of psych stuff going on. We had to register in case the neighbours rang the police. We were advised to by a paediatrician and a couple of Heather's workmates from the Hutt Hospital kid's ward and we were both stunned to find out that not only did the process exist, but some B**stard had already tried to dob us in.

**Big Dog** · 5th May 2004, 16:14

Originally Posted by jrandom

(although 'fatherless' is a hundred times better than a violent, abusive home)....

Well said old bean.

I don't live with my kids anymore because my ex was short tempered often violent around me and to me, sometimes unprovoked and I could no tlive with the fear it would happen to them one day.

On the other hand she is a sane rational considerate loving mother in my absence.

If it were not for the violence I would still be there loveless or not.

on the other hand I pay $730 a month for the priveledge of not getting to see my children for fear that if she knew I knew where she lived she would skip town again and she might not be so easy to find this time.

Don't even get me started on our archaic police / court system that see's police laugh at the mere suggestion my bloody lip and loose teeth came from a caste iron frying pan, or clock, or.... Three reports no charges need I say more. And the courts still do not want to know about a fathers rights unless there is proof ie it has to have already occured regularly enough to collect evidence. that abuse has occured, even where the child would be better provided and cared for in the fathers custody.

Please note: I have never hit her or any other partner. For that matter it is now 19 years since I hit another living creature in anger (playfighting and sparring don't count)

**White trash** · 5th May 2004, 17:13

Originally Posted by Jim2

Number one son is beautifully behaved (as much as a 3 year old can be) and the only "symptom" of son number two arriving is bedtime rages. We had to register with CYFS and Plunket to be allowed to use the necessary discipline to get him to bed at night. It's just about all over now, but at its peak there was lots of very loud screaming from number one son. Not because we were beating him mind, but because he felt left out because he was being put to bed - lots of psych stuff going on. We had to register in case the neighbours rang the police. We were advised to by a paediatrician and a couple of Heather's workmates from the Hutt Hospital kid's ward and we were both stunned to find out that not only did the process exist, but some B**stard had already tried to dob us in.

Been "dobbed" to CYFS before about 4 years ago with my number one daughter. After much interogation and checking refrences they decided it was unfounded.

my (then) wife was an absolute wreck and I tried to be philosophical about the whole thing. 'Till about 9 months later when one of our friends let it slip who had dobbed us. Seems everyone knew except us. When I found out who it was (and it was completely malicious!) I went round to sort things out for myself.

Aint it funny how CYFS see things as guilty 'till proven inocent. All in the best interests of the kids though so i'll tolerate it.

Shame they didn't move their lazy arses re: Corral Burrows

**Ms Piggy** · 5th May 2004, 17:21

Originally Posted by jrandom

Has your opinion of me gone down, CSL? Hopefully it's obvious now that I wasn't referring to anyone in the situation that your mother experienced. And I'm glad you agree that Dads are important...

Ahhhhhhh - so there is logic behind your angry rant

All is good mate & now that I understand where you are coming from I can see what you mean.

**Ms Piggy** · 5th May 2004, 17:30

Originally Posted by celticno6

I could tell you a lot about the family court system in this country, and the bias against men in general, and fathers in particular.

Some fathers don't even get given the choice to be hugely active members of their children's lives.

Not that I'm slagging any of you guys off but, apparently there has been research done into men who say that even though a lot of men state that they "don't have access" to their kids, most of them don't really want it when it comes down to it.

Now don't all jump down my throat.

It's just there is research about it...nothing I can put my finger on right now!

**KATWYN** · 5th May 2004, 17:35

Gosh it seems there are a lot of dobbers out there.

I wonder how hard it is for child and young person
services to sift out the stirrers and exaggeraters
from the genuine concerns.

I don't envy their job.

**Hitcher** · 5th May 2004, 17:41

Originally Posted by KATWYN

Gosh it seems there are a lot of dobbers out there.

I wonder how hard it is for child and young person
services to sift out the stirrers and exaggeraters
from the genuine concerns.

I don't envy their job.

Amen to that, sister. The two extremes of this spectrum -- dobbers and ignorers -- are almost as bad as each other. Unless you feel personally threatened there is no excuse for dobbing without first trying to ascertain the facts about what's going on and why.

**claire** · 5th May 2004, 17:42

You definately have a point there Katwyn and the sad thing is when they do get it wrong the consequences are sometimes extreme. Not something I would want to do for a living.

**Ms Piggy** · 5th May 2004, 17:47

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Amen to that, sister. The two extremes of this spectrum -- dobbers and ignorers -- are almost as bad as each other. Unless you feel personally threatened there is no excuse for dobbing without first trying to ascertain the facts about what's going on and why.

Yeah I agree with you Katwyn & Mr H...seems to me that NZers are pretty much cowards when it comes to actually communicating with their neighbours to find out what's going on. I find it staggering how after an event people are often heard to say "We all knew that something was wrong but..."