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Thread: Mental illness in New Zealand

  1. #16
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    Mental illness is a difficult topic because there is still a social stigma attached. The only area of which I have a little knowledge is depression.

    Depression can be chemical or psychological in cause. For some people the brain soaks up seratonin too quickly. Seratonin is a mood enhancing chemical and if it is too low then you can become depressed. So it is treated with SSRI drugs such as Prozac.

    Other types of depression arise from situations of stress and counselling/psychotherapy is the preferred treatment.

    The problem is that all depression seems to be psychological at its core and the chemical imbalances are a result rather than a cause.

    Anyway, the advice from normal people to "just get over it" really irritates me. As Jim2 says, normal people just don't get it. From what I've seen, depressed people have no idea of how to get out of the dark place. It is in their head and escaping by themselves is impossible. If it were easy then suicide would be unknown.

    So talking to a trusted person is important which is where psychotherapy has it's place. Once strong enough, the patient can "get over it" themselves but not many manage without that initial support.

    It is true that the cure ultimately has to come from within but getting a person to the point where that realisation dawns is a hard road.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul in NZ
    Weeellllll.....

    I think in life, everyone of us, sooner or later faces our Waterloo.
    But do we face our 'Waterloo' as Arthur "Tha'duke of Wellington" Wellesley (in the Red corner), or Napoleon "Boney" Bonaparte (in the Blue corner)???

    ding, ding!

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunken Monkey
    But do we face our 'Waterloo' as Arthur "Tha'duke of Wellington" Wellesley (in the Red corner), or Napoleon "Boney" Bonaparte (in the Blue corner)???

    ding, ding!
    It really does not matter how you face it, just that you square up and take your lumps!

    I'm not saying you need to fight everything or be confrontational. In fact avoiding confrontation is a very successful life tool BUT every life will throw up a set of circumstances that HAS to be faced! Even in defeat, the Napoleons are better men from facing the boogy man.

    Paul N

    "We're a planet of nearly six billion ninnies living in a civilization that was designed by a few thousand amazingly smart deviants." Scott Adams

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston001
    Anyway, the advice from normal people to "just get over it" really irritates me. As Jim2 says, normal people just don't get it. From what I've seen, depressed people have no idea of how to get out of the dark place. It is in their head and escaping by themselves is impossible. If it were easy then suicide would be unknown.
    The majority of us will experience a degree of depression at points in our life. I think "Just get over it" is a bit crude however I'd agree with it. I've personally dealt with it myself and at the end of the day you are the only person who can help yourself.

    One of the most basic ways of dealing with depression is knowing that you have depression. If you are in denial, then "Get the fuck over it". Once you know you've got it, just work on finding the triggers and managing them.

    The actions of people would quite easily get me depressed as I failed to understand them. I might be in a social situation and "miss the point" then make myself look like an idiot. That repeatedly happening eventually takes its toll on the mind.

    I'd have to partly agree with what Jim2 said about telling people. However it is a great way to gauge the type of company you keep.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston001
    Anyway, the advice from normal people to "just get over it" really irritates me. As Jim2 says, normal people just don't get it. From what I've seen, depressed people have no idea of how to get out of the dark place. It is in their head and escaping by themselves is impossible. If it were easy then suicide would be unknown.
    The old 'just get over it' response is really irritating to most people I think, especially coming from someone who doesnt know their arse from their elbow.
    Depression affects many people in many ways but no-one I know who has experienced it can describe it as anything other than 'hell'. Even after seeking professional help, many are still unable to cope or use strategies sufficiently well to avoid relapses. The 'black dog' as Churchill called it,
    is a poor companion at best and most people who suffer from it seldom recover fully.
    Do not pity those who suffer but admire the strength that allows them to continue in the face of great personal difficulty. Support them as friends by being understanding of the mood swings without judging them (or accepting any shit that isnt yours). Be honest with them and allow them to do likewise with you.
    Above all, be kind in your thoughts, you may need the same one day if the black dog comes to visit your house.
    rant over

    "If you can't laugh at yourself, you're just not paying attention!"
    "There is no limit to dumb."

    "Resolve to live with all your might while you do live, and as you shall wish you had done ten thousand years hence."

  6. #21
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    i quite enjoyed my stay in porirua hospital.
    Last edited by mikey; 11th April 2006 at 12:21.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManDownUnder
    1) I want to help if I reasonably can, and it is appropriate for me to do so
    The first thing you need to learn (in my opinion, of course) is when someone needs or wants your help or needs or wants a friend.

    My mother, unfortunately, constantly tried to help me when I didn't need help and it made the situation worse.

    What fixed my situation was leaving home at a very young age. No one to try and help me. When you can't affoard toliet paper and eat off tables made out of boxes and broken doors, your mentality changes. Any problem you have either destroys you or the situation destroys them and makes you stronger.

    That is why I have the notion helping (usually) does more harm than good.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanny
    The first thing you need to learn (in my opinion, of course) is when someone needs or wants your help or needs or wants a friend.

    My mother, unfortunately, constantly tried to help me when I didn't need help and it made the situation worse.

    What fixed my situation was leaving home at a very young age. No one to try and help me. When you can't affoard toliet paper and eat off tables made out of boxes and broken doors, your mentality changes. Any problem you have either destroys you or the situation destroys them and makes you stronger.

    That is why I have the notion helping (usually) does more harm than good.
    Help takes many forms....can be as simple as just being there....so not sure I entirely agree with your notion.....sorry.....whoops I must not say that.....

    With your Mum I guess it was what Mums do...Nag.

    Leaving home was your choice, however, it was in a hidden way your life journey and you are stronger.

    I see life as a journey.....right now I am seperated, finances are a bit iffy, have equal shared custody of Natalie and Wife (she left)is not making things easy.....but I know this is my journey so I do not get too stressed about it because I am learning and I will be stronger for it.

  9. #24
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    Arrow Im a psych RN

    if you want any info feel free to PM me. Sorry the arm is pretty sore atm so I wont be posting anything much for awhile
    Those who insist on perfect safety, don't have the balls to live in the real world.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston001
    So talking to a trusted person is important which is where psychotherapy has it's place.
    A psycotherapist would be the last place I would send a friend who was suffering from depression (again - I've been through it already with an-ex girlfriend). Depression itself can cause further depression - when some one is in the "dark hole", the depression itself can dig the hole even deeper. Pyscotherapy focuses on why things are the way they are. Depression is often fueled by reliving moments and thoughts of inadequacy, failure etc. Focusing on these is what the person has been doing to get into the state. Instead, the depression is best not dwelt on - implement strategies to get out of the hole, and recognise triggers to stop falling back in. A psycholigist is more suited to helping with these strategies.

    One of these strategies is to, in effect, go into denial about depression. Forget about it. Do stuff that takes your mind off it. Guys are naturally better than this, which might explain why the stats are higher for female depression (, or that guys don't seek help as much as women). Ever get back from a 2 hour fang on the bike feeling peaceful and calm having been 100% focused on the riding?

    Obviously I'm not a professional, but this is what I learnt along the way. It's a blanket statement yes, and like all blankets it won't cover every one. Probably the biggest help for her was having some one that "understands", not necessarily some one who is trying to help.

    To answer the question; What would you do if you found out that a KB member you like riding with has a problem with depression or any other disorder? Treat them normally, but be tolerant and understanding.

  11. #26
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    Interesting discussion. Family/friends have to tread a cautious path. Too much sympathy and understanding for the affected person allows that person to keep the depression. The sympathy validates the condition.

    It seems to me that depression must be fought. Dwelling upon it simply reinforces the condition. So distraction, keeping busy, doing meaningful work all helps to move it away. This allows the affected person to gain a sense of self-worth and build up the resiliance that normal people have as a matter of course.

    Ultimately the cure comes from within but I suggest most cannot take the first faltering steps without a trusted helper. That can be a doctor, a priest, counsellor - anyone provided they do not become a crutch.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanny
    ..
    One of my main gripes is the attitude not from the "ignorant sods" but those who think they know and understand. Sometimes trying to help does more harm than good.

    And this is a topic everyone should have an opinion on. Because statistics show that your neighbour is more likely to be an axe murderer with six different personalities than Elle McPherson who likes to walk around partly nude in her self branded underwear.

    What would you do if you found out that a KB member you like riding with has a problem with depression or any other disorder?

    ...
    I would class as one of the "ignorant sods". Not because I am uninterested, but because it is hard to understand these things withour having had direct experience of them either oneself, or through someone close.

    And, as far as I know I've never met anyone with a mental illness.

    Now, statistically that seems unlikely. So I guess maybe I have and just not realised it. I tend to be somewhat unconventional myself (Sharrup Von Klunken, 'Underverdammit vierd, if zu is askink me' is not an appropriate comment) so perhaps I just accept without noticing things that more "normal" (Sharrup I said!) people might find strange.

    I've never really understood depression either , for the same reason. Of course there have been times in my life shit has happened, and I've been down, unhappy, miserable. But I realise that clinical depression is different to this. But, never having experienced it, I can't really understand what it would be like.

    I do realise that "harden up" and "snap out of it" are pretty futile responses, because obviously, if the sufferer *could*, they *would*. But I don't really know what is appropriate, other than to treat people (as I always try to do) with consideration, courtesy and kindness.

    So I guess the answer to the "what would you do" question is , nothing much different unless the person indicated they wanted my help.

    BTW I would definately agree with Mr Jim2 about keeping quiet about such matters at werk. Corporate NZ (corporate anywhere) is the preserve of the grey minded, grey clothed , grey spirited conventional sheep. Anything that does not accord with their grey notions of how the world should be (grey, conventional , smug and boring) will be treated as abberrant, wrong and evil.

    Don't look for understanding or sympathy in corporate world, cos you won't find it. Admitting to any problem is admitting to a weakness which will most certainly be used as a weapon against you (IS departments are perhaps not quite so bad as others)
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
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  13. #28
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    I probably should have been diagnosed with something years ago. I don't think it was/is depression (it's not so bad I can't get out of bed) but there are just occasions where I think "WTF happened??!!??". I've been sailing along just fine and then I do something really stupid that fucks everything up. I've either lost or quit countless jobs coz I have no idea why. I dunno whether I'm just a dumb c*nt or what. I'm not gonna lay my soul bare, here, but I'll tell ya what I think.

    There are too many people who are not getting some help/support. That doesn't mean they have mental illness it means that they have trouble understanding things or dealing with things because they haven't been taught how to. They haven't learnt the social skills, they haven't been taught how to de-stress, they haven't been taught (by their parents mostly) how to deal with issues that come up in their lives. I say they and yet I'm probably in 'their' boat!

    I think people want to be heard, to have something to say that people will respond to. Society these days is so fractured that there aren't the groups of friends that our parents grew up with (or at least they're a lot smaller) and consequently the support as adults isn't there. This place actually redresses some of that to a degree. I don't know whther any that makes any sense that's just what I think.
    Col
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  14. #29
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    I could write a novel about this, but professionally I have to be careful how far I tread into this discussion.

    In my view mental illness is not dealt with well in our society. In blunt terms, the public system is a joke. There are many and varied reasons for this, but in my view the outcome is still the same - a joke. The private system is not necessarily any better. The way psychiatry is moving there will be a DSM-IV diagnosis for every individual who sheds a tear soon.

    Depression is often diagnosed incorrectly, and not treated adequately. Some GPs are too eager to do nothing, others are too eager to prescribe pills. Many don't seem too eager to refer you to a specialist. And many patients don't seem too eager to go when they are referred. And not all psychiatrists are created equal either. Nor are psychologists. Counsellors should have no role in mental illness. Fine if you're having a bad moment in life, but they should not be involved in a real genuine medical illness.

    And don't get me started on the people who milk stress/depression/anxiety/somatoform/fibromyalgia/chronic pain syndrome/chronic fatigue syndrome/multiple chemical sensitivity claims out of insurance companies. For every genuine claim, I definitely have my own views that I cannot share here on how many are not genuine. And that makes it worse for those who genuinely do have an illness that they are struggling with.

    In some ways the "get over it" attitude is the best thing that you can do. But too many people don't want to take responsibility for that. That can be due to their illness, but sometimes it's just down to their personality. Having a f***ed up personality is not a mental illness. Remember that.

    For those that really truly do have a mental illness, forget the public system. Get a GOOD psychiatrist and GOOD clinical psychologist. Forget your GP. No offence to the GPs, but most are overworked, under resourced and this is NOT their area of expertise.
    "You, Madboy, are the Uncooked Pork Sausage of Sausage Beasts. With extra herbs."
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  15. #30
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    ..
    The way psychiatry is moving there will be a DSM-IV diagnosis for every individual who sheds a tear soon.

    ..
    Woz DSM-IV ?
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

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