Politics

[The Stranger:Me]

Big Dave posted a thread asking about the key issues facing motorcyclists.
There were 128 replies and many issues raised.

It would appear that motorcyclists feel that there is certainly room for improvement in the way they are considered when it comes to many aspects of the law and road building etc etc.

Why then have we not had a better response to the Keep Motorbikes exempt from road tolls thread.

This is typical bloody apathy. You moan to about our lot but are too bloody lazy to even move the mouse to save yourselves. Don't worry leave it to someone else, I'll just kick back and moan.

There are about 45,000 motorcycles registered in NZ. We can be a decent force and get some recognition and change, but it wont happen if we all leave it to the next guy.

Thank you to Dave, Ixion, Oldrider and Trev (and anyone else I may have missed) for turning up at BRONZ.

Thank you those who have placed a submission to try and keep bikes exempt from tolls.

To the rest of you GET OFF YOUR ARSE. Even if you think the tolls don't concern you, show some solidarity. Make them hear us.

[hXc]

Personally, I don't see why us non-Aucklanders should submit our views. It's not our roads. And it's Aucklanders who got the roads up there so bad that they have more congestion.

Not my problem at all that your roads are bad. Sort it out yourself. And why the fuck should the rest of us be paying tax for your roads?! You don't pay for ours, we shouldn't be paying for yours.

Auckland needs to pull it's fucking head in to line and see things normally, like the rest of us. Damned if I'm EVER living in Auckland. I hate the place.

Stop whinging and let yourselves sort it out. It's Auckland's fault, Auckland's problem and Auckland can bloody well sort it out!

[Blairos]

Agreed CaN - I have completed my submission (first time I had ever done anything like this, and it was pretty painless thanks to those threads)

You have no reason to complain if this stuff goes through, and you didnt voice your case to the powers that be... At least those that have already will know we made our feelings felt about this..

[Ixion]

Personally, I don't see why us non-Aucklanders should submit our views. It's not our roads. And it's Aucklanders who got the roads up there so bad that they have more congestion.

Not my problem at all that your roads are bad. Sort it out yourself. And why the fuck should the rest of us be paying tax for your roads?! You don't pay for ours, we shouldn't be paying for yours.

Auckland needs to pull it's fucking head in to line and see things normally, like the rest of us. Damned if I'm EVER living in Auckland. I hate the place.

Stop whinging and let yourselves sort it out. It's Auckland's fault, Auckland's problem and Auckland can bloody well sort it out!

We do actually. Auckland still pays far more into the pot than it gets back. There'd be virtually NO sealed roads in the South Island if South Island roads had to be paid for from South Island taxes. Just not enough people.

As for why object to road pricing. Cos Auckland's just being used as a 'feeler" . If the politicians get away with it there, it'll spread.

It's nothing to do with the state of the roads, it's just an excuse to raise more revenue.

Also, on a more philosophical front, it is an example of political denigration of motorcycles, in general.

Auckland could of course sort its problem out simply by demanding that Auckland taxes be spent solely in Auckland. Sucks to be the rest of the country then, but.

[hXc]

We do actually. Auckland still pays far more into the pot than it gets back. There'd be virtually NO sealed roads in the South Island if South Island roads had to be paid for from South Island taxes. Just not enough people.

As for why object to road pricing. Cos Auckland's just being used as a 'feeler" . If the politicians get away with it there, it'll spread.

It's nothing to do with the state of the roads, it's just an excuse to raise more revenue.

Also, on a more philosophical front, it is an example of political denigration of motorcycles, in general.

Auckland could of course sort its problem out simply by demanding that Auckland taxes be spent solely in Auckland. Sucks to be the rest of the country then, but.

Well put it this way. If Napier was faced with the congestion issues of Auckland. I don't think the percentage of Aucklanders that would submit their views would be smaller than the percentage of Napier-ites submitting their views agaisnt Auckland's issues.

I'm just not going to be a person who will help other places in NZ when directly, they don't help me.

I'm not going to give into the government, I'm not going to give into the politically correct way that this country is heading for. As soon as I can, I'm heading off. There are better places than here as far as politics are concerned.

I just wish people would fucking open their eyes and stand up for themselves.

[The Stranger:Me]

Thank you hXc.
I couldn't have asked for a better response.

There is always one, isn't there. Auckland has for many years paid way more tax and fuel levies than it ever recived. The rest of you would all be on gravel roads if it weren't for us. I look forward to you apology and a heart felt thank you.

This is exactly the sort of fuckwittedness that ensures we get no change.

I gave up travelling in Auckland traffic about 7 years ago. I work from home program and manage servers etc remotely. And quite frankly the tolls are likely to have a positive impact on our business as the guys on the road should be able to attend a site when necessary much quicker. I do commute at times when I choose to. I may however cut back on this recreational activity if they introduce tolls, though this will not upset me.

But, it is not about me, it is about bikers. As I said show some solidarity. If we unite we can get the powers that be to make change.

Or listen to hXc, his way may sit back, sit back and say, it's not my problem.

[The Stranger:Me]

I'm not going to give into the government, I'm not going to give into the politically correct way that this country is heading for. As soon as I can, I'm heading off. There are better places than here as far as politics are concerned.

I just wish people would fucking open their eyes and stand up for themselves.

Man are you confused or what?
You are not going to give in, yet you are going to give up and get out.

And yes we are in complete agreement, I just wish people would fucking open their eyes and stand up for themselves.

[Squeak the Rat]

I'm just not going to be a person who will help other places in NZ when directly, they don't help me.

I'm flabbergasted at this comment. Don't help others unless they have helped you first.

Each to their own.

BTW - I placed a submission on the Tawa speed limit even though I've only passed through there once, because it was something that I disagreed with in principle. I guess one needs principles to apply this approach though.

[sAsLEX]

Personally, I don't see why us non-Aucklanders should submit our views. It's not our roads.

Bad ideas are like a virus, they spread

[hXc]

But, it is not about me, it is about bikers. As I said show some solidarity. If we unite we can get the powers that be to make change.

Or listen to hXc, his way may sit back, sit back and say, it's not my problem.

Firstly: It's not about all bikers. It's about Auckland's bikers.

Secondly: We will never get the powers that be to make a change. The fact is, they don't want bikers on the roads because they know we are superior. And because we add to the accident rate. When really, it's the cagers fault for us adding to the accident rate.

If they do make a change, it's a change for Auckland only. And I would have thought that adding toll booths or whatever they're going to do would just add to the congestion. Making traffic stop, give them some money, keep going etc etc. It's just gunna make more congestion.

If Auckland had listened to Mayor Robbie all those years ago, they may not have the congestion they have today. As I see it, Auckland alone got itself into this mess, so Auckland alone can get itself out of this mess.

[hXc]

I'm flabbergasted at this comment. Don't help others unless they have helped you first.

Each to their own.

BTW - I placed a submission on the Tawa speed limit even though I've only passed through there once, because it was something that I disagreed with in principle. I guess one needs principles to apply this approach though.

Well Auckland itself is a complete hole! No soul, no life, nothing! It's a concrete fucking city with nothing. They don't help me directly in any way and quite frankly, I couldn't give two shits if Aucklanders have to pay congestion charges.

I don't have to pay congestion charges: One) Because we don't have the traffic that Auckland does. Two) Because our roading system works and we use public transport.

Aucklanders are just too up themselves to pay a few bucks and take the bus. Or pay a few bucks and sit in a car with fellow workmates or people heading to practically the same place.

Well I didn't place a submission on Auckland's congestion because it didn't let me and because they don't help me in anyway, in fact they make things worse for me.

[Ixion]

No, it is about biking, not just tolls. SOme of the submissions actually support road pricing in concept, they object to the fact that bikes are not excluded. Arguing that bikes reduce congestion generally. Which should be an argument of interest to all motorcyclists.

When I was younger bikers were much more politically active and clued up. We DID on several occasions force the powers that be to make a change.

I remember attending an meeting when ACC wanted to put up levies. Still far far less than at present, and still much less than cars. But bikers objected to being discriminated against

And turned up to a protest meeting in sufficient numbers to fill the Auckland Town Hall (not a small building).

Was on TV , the works. ACC backed down.

Then in the 90's bikers got real apathetic. The whole concept of a biker community sticking together was lost, people were only interested in themselves. As hXc demonstrates.

Dunno if this is a reflection on biking itself, or just on young people.

We must all hang together, or 'tis certain we shall hang severally (Sorry, Ben)

[hXc]

........Above post........

Well why don't the bikers in Auckland protest then. A bit of writing won't change much, not where I come from. Put your anger against the tolls into physical practice and yell stuff, throw stuff, create an angry mob or whatever. An internet submission is just a questionnaire. A protest, is a way to make people think well maybe this isn't a good idea.

[MSTRS:Me]

For what it's worth, I agree with what hXc is trying to say. Auckland has known about this growing problem for 40 years and their historical answer has always been "Add more roads/motorways".
Any fool can see that this can only ever encourage more cars etc onto the roads there, and now when the situation has arrived at a point of diminishing returns, the D'orklanders want the rest of us to pay (again) for yet more roading, or to pay to use existing roads (bridge) on our way through to otherplaces.
The world's major cities (at least in the West) recognised that more roads were not the answer years ago. Are D'orklanders so arrogant that they believe the 'rules' don't apply to them??
The only effective answer is to create a public transport system that meshes it's various parts, is convenient to use, and is cost effective for the users in terms of money & time spent using it.
And I also agree that not living in a particular city means I have no 'right' to have my say (on a poll/whatever) in the planning of that city's transport infrastructure.

[hXc]

Then in the 90's bikers got real apathetic. The whole concept of a biker community sticking together was lost, people were only interested in themselves. As hXc demonstrates.

Dunno if this is a reflection on biking itself, or just on young people.

Well who's fault is it that bikers got apathetic in the 90's? Not mine! Maybe the people who have been biking since before the 90's should re-inact some of the things bikers did back then to change that.

It's not that I'm only interested in myself. It's that I couldn't give 2 shits about Auckland because they got themselves into this mess with no help. Why don't they get themselves out of this mess with no help?

It may just be young people. But the reason the young people are like this is because the older people taught us. Again, not my fault that you older people screwed things up and made the younger generation a pack of selfish, dim-witted de-generates.