Two biker's lost forever..Easter Roads!!

[Motu]

I don't think Scumdog has a problem,you hold that one on your own.There were no Cops involved in the 3 motorcycle fatalities - why bring them into it?

[JohnR]

On the reading the reports it seems all three crashes involved other road users, rather than motorcycles on their own. I guess without knowing details it's hard to see if there was a common factor in any of them. I agree that a more diverse method of recording "contributing factors" should be adopted to enable groups of road users to identify and address common "mistakes".

Condolences to all concerned.

[terbang]

I don't think Scumdog has a problem,you hold that one on your own.There were no Cops involved in the 3 motorcycle fatalities - why bring them into it?

Oh shit here we go again..
I was asking Scumdog for his views because he is an experienced motorcyclist that also sees another side becuse he is a policeman and also long standing member of this board. In other words I would value his opinion here as to what we as a group could do to improve our statistics..!
Clear enough.?

[Motu]

Um...learn how to ride??

[Rhino]

Oh shit here we go again..
I was asking Scumdog for his views because he is an experienced motorcyclist that also sees another side becuse he is a policeman and also long standing member of this board. In other words I would value his opinion here as to what we as a group could do to improve our statistics..!
Clear enough.?

Good call terbang. I agree with you. Maybe if we can get more info from bike clubs/groups and the Police, we may just manage to save a few people every year.

That would make it all worthwhile.

PS: Motu, I'm not knocking you, as you are one of the most sensible posters here, but I think that terbang has a good point. If we all work together, we will achieve more than on our own.

[terbang]

I wont even hold the harley thing against him..promise..

[XP@]

I agree its not good at all for motorcycling to have such a poor accident rate.
The up north thing probably reflects where the population is but the proportion of 60% is incomprehensible and disturbing.
So what do you reckon Scummy (the motorcyclist and the Policeman), you have been around a while by the looks of things, what is our problem..?
Honestly its time we started working together (bikers and LTSA) rather than cat and mouse games to make our hobby a safer one..
Anyone else care to add..?

Suggest you have a look at http://www.rideforever.co.nz/index.html
Some more practical stuff would be good too... eg KiwiBiker challenges the KiwiRider & the KiwiPolice to a skills competition... can't see us winning, but it may emphasise the more "graceful" side of riding.

[scumdog]

So what do you reckon Scummy (the motorcyclist and the Policeman), you have been around a while by the looks of things, what is our problem..?
Honestly its time we started working together (bikers and LTSA) rather than cat and mouse games to make our hobby a safer one..
Anyone else care to add..?

Hmm, 'been around a while' - what are you trying to say.....

Anyway, my 2 cents worth - sometimes it's plain old bad luck - you know, wrong-place/wrong-time and/or some form of mechanical/tyre failure. (poor maintenance maybe?)
MOSTLY:
Others it's because of too much increasing complacency - not being aware of surroundings/what's happening nearby etc, and 'assuming' others have 'seen' you.
Others it's because of riding style - too much speed in the wrong circumstances, 'centre-lining' into oncoming traffic (who may well be unaware of you being on the road), fanging it on an unfamiliar road where loose gravel/farm machinery or livestock may be literally 'just around the corner'.
And finally riding too close to others and/or trying to 'catch-up' with said others.
We ARE our own worse enemy.
I ride in a very paranoid fashion, treating everybody as blind and/or irrational and/or incompetent, getting a speeding ticket is far from my mind as it is unlikely to kill me..

[rasty]

You nailed it scummy. Especially the bit about riding style.

[terbang]

The usual suspects and I agree wholeheartedly. I tend to follow the theory of monitoring my Handling skills, my Mental skills and my Self control skills. (being a Busa rider certainly tests the self control bit). And what you have said falls into at least one of thos categorys. A one liner from Motu profoundly states that we need to learn to ride better. That really sums it up and having been on a recent Newbie ride I noticed that such rides were in fact bridging a big void between the basic licence (riding around cones) and the end product (out there doin it competently on the road) with the guys eager to absorb any information they could get whilst airing their concerns to someone they trusted. Let me compare it to Aviation (sorry but its what I know) A new Co-pilot will be initially type rated on the aircraft i.e Boeing 737 (it goes on his licence) this legally qualifies them to fly the aircraft (like the learners licence) but what happens next is they are given a period (100hrs) of "on the line" training under the supervision of a senior Captain. This period bridges the gap between the raw Qual and the real world before they are let loose on line by themselves. It costs but it produces a more competent product. It is this "on the Road" training that is missing in our motorcycle world. Our Industry has little leadership with MNZ into racing and BRONZ and similar only having quiet voices and the LTSA being for regulation. Some of the clubs offer good stuff but it costs and clubs are not for everyone. So I guess what I am trying to say is the expertise and the machinery is out there but the cohesion isn't because of the lack of leadership. Guess its all been said before and this weekends statistic may be just the bad luck side but we all need to put aside our differences (and that is with our regulators and police as well) and just think MOTORCYCLE and how can we improve things. Lets face it if we appeared a more responsible bunch then maybe we would gain some value and concession as well from these people. There is no such thing as a free lunch and it costs to get good leadership and I for one am prepared to put my hand in my pocket to achieve such a goal.

[KATWYN]

getting a speeding ticket is far from my mind as it is unlikely to kill me..

Thats a good one.

[denill]

Anyway, my 2 cents worth - sometimes it's plain old bad luck - you know, wrong-place/wrong-time and/or some form of mechanical/tyre failure. (poor maintenance maybe?)
MOSTLY:
Others it's because of too much increasing complacency - not being aware of surroundings/what's happening nearby etc, and 'assuming' others have 'seen' you.
Others it's because of riding style - too much speed in the wrong circumstances, 'centre-lining' into oncoming traffic (who may well be unaware of you being on the road), fanging it on an unfamiliar road where loose gravel/farm machinery or livestock may be literally 'just around the corner'.
And finally riding too close to others and/or trying to 'catch-up' with said others.
We ARE our own worse enemy.
I ride in a very paranoid fashion, treating everybody as blind and/or irrational and/or incompetent, getting a speeding ticket is far from my mind as it is unlikely to kill me..

Now I reckon that sums it up SOOOO perfectly.
When Scumbag becomes the Police Commissioner all will be well...........

[loosebruce]

I knew the gentleman who died in Matamata , a good man who loved his bikes (honda`s in particular ) he had more than 10 of them at home by memory. He will be sadly missed , rest in peace mate , and my condolences to the families of the other`s that also died this weekend. ride safe everyone ,you never know what`s around the corner.

A good man and bloody good friend, one of the guys who got me into motorcycling with my uncle, am deeply saddened by the loss, and more so saddened for my uncle who was more than good mates with him, he was a very good rider, one not to take too many risks but still hack along very nicely, but guess you just never know and it's one of those things, To top it off also knew breifly the guy who lost his life down SH22 some very sad cricumstances behind his loss, great weekend, happy easter huh.

Keep it safe guys n girls.