Cornering Advice II

[Jonty]

I was reading another thread regarding cornering downhill and I though I would follow up with a question of my own that I have been having difficulty with recently.

My cornering over the last couple of years has improved, however, the one problem area in my cornering is not picking the vanishing point correctly and crossing the centre line (yes I know, not good at all). The problem is most apparent when going into a right hander. I am finding that I am apexing a little early and ending up having to striaghten the bike up and recorrect (or end up on front of a truck!).

Can anyone lend a helpful hint on how best to pick the V point and the timing of the apex. I know where both should be as we have sll been through the courses, but in practice it is turning out to be a little more challenging to pick the point with accuracy.

Cheers

[beyond]

Jonty,

You obviously know the theory so now it's practice, practice and more practice.

Try apexing a little later until you get the recipe right. I mentioned in an earlier thread, the reason we do this on a right hander, is because there is no road run out. On a left hander, if you cock up, you have more road to get a handle on things without ending up in the gravel. It's still bad crossing the centre line in either case as you already know.

On a right hander, an error means you end up in the gravel and generally have a closer look at the countryside than intended. We over compensate by cutting the corner. Apex a little later each time, until you get the line right. It's just practice and experience, as every corner is different as well.

Pick a corner that that has open views and start slowly and keep building up.
Then move onto another open view corner that's different, until you have a handle on increasing and decreasing radius corners and everything in between.

It'll come mate. Can take years to get these things down to pat.

[Squeak the Rat]

If all else fails (or while you're trying all else) - you could get your eyes tested. A difference in vision in each eye *could* influence your depth perception while cornering one way only.

Personally, I'm just crap at left handers and I think I've put it down to a pyschological fear of crossing the centre line into an oncoming vehicle. Working on it though......

[bugjuice]

stop rushing yourself and take your time. If you're too caught up in the ride, you will make heaps of mistakes. If you take a step back and slow down 5k's, your lines will change heaps, then you can start to rebuild on your focus etc

[justsomeguy]

Right hand corners are my biggest obvious problem too. I think I just need to develop more self-discipline, stick to my line and not chicken out and come closer to the middle of the road as I take the corner.

Also remember that just because you can see through the corner doesn't mean you use the vanishing point from the other side of the road. In right handers the vanishing point is the furthest you can see in the corner in your side of the lane - that's what makes it trickier to find the exact point.

People tend to look past the vanishing point as they can see further and end up entering hotter and then re-correcting their line losing time and speed, well I do at least and as a result most of my lines suck.

On really tight roads like Cheenic Dwive I find it helps me immensely if I set up for the corner as early as possible, this gives me more time to prepare myself for corner entry making the whole process easier.

[Jonty]

Also remember that just because you can see through the corner doesn't mean you use the vanishing point from the other side of the road. In right handers the vanishing point is the furthest you can see in the corner in your side of the lane - that's what makes it trickier to find the exact point.

Exactly, I think that is what is happening. If you are on a left hander with a hill on your left (take the Taka for example) the vanishing point is the furthest point you can see on your side (relatively stright forward cause if you overshoot your looking at a hill). With a wide open right hander trying to get that point on your side of the road is difficult. If you got off your bike and stood in the middle of the road, sure it will be a lot easier but it seems to be the changing nature of the backdrop that can cause difficulty. I guess it is still practice, practice. The trouble is once you get the corner right you are still nto sure where the point is that you were looking at!

[Motu]

I don't follow the apex and vanishing point thing - they are all later in the corner.Start at the begining,it all depends on corner entry,get that right and the rest follows...if you are stuffing up the apex you got your entry wrong.

[justsomeguy]

I don't follow the apex and vanishing point thing - they are all later in the corner.Start at the begining,it all depends on corner entry,get that right and the rest follows...if you are stuffing up the apex you got your entry wrong.

Isn't your corner entry dependant on whether the vanishing point is retreating or approaching you?? Aren't the apex and vanishing point two different things?

(Looking for advice, not trying to argue.)

[bugjuice]

vanishing point you can see, apex you can't, unless you know the road. If you don't know the road, how do you know where the apex is?
Forget all the apex crap on roads you don't know, even on roads you do know. If you go for the apex on a right hand corner, and a truck is using that bit of road to run wide too, guess who's going to win?

If you set yourself up right to start with, and leave as much room for error as possible, then you'll be fine

[kiwifruit]

as has been said, slow down a little and try to apex later

[Ixion]

Apex and vanishing point are different things. But what I think Mr Motu is saying is that you have to do such a lot of sorting out long before you are (often) in a position to see either, that if you wait until you have them resolved it will be too late to set up properly.

As you approach the corner you have to brake, decide on entry speed, change down etc, often well before you are in a position to see enough through the corner to know what it is like.

So you need to try to make some early guesses about the corner, if you get them wrong it is usually too late once you get into it to make it tidy - you either go through slower than you might have, or call on the reserves you built in .Trying to change things once you are in the corner is usually just going to make you ragged and non-smooth. (Of course if the corner turns out to be much tighter than expected , then you may have no choice - remember those reserves ? )

This assumes of course that you are not familiar with the road, which is usually the case for Mr Motu or me . The sprotsbike people tend to ride the same bit of road over and over, so their case is different. For that, do the racing things, memorizing braking points etc .

[The_Dover]

Cornering tips with JSG!!!

What next? Target shooting with Stevie Wonder? Scoring chicks by Mr Poo's? Wheelie 101 with The_Dover? Stopping and taking your medecine by Mr M. Boy???

[skelstar]

Dont know sh1t but reckon you should just be happy about going through the corner a bit slower and itll come. LIke others have said, sort out your entry point, take your time to tip the bike over where you want. Time to think.

Slow in - Fast out.

[Motu]

Isn't your corner entry dependant on whether the vanishing point is retreating or approaching you?? Aren't the apex and vanishing point two different things?

(Looking for advice, not trying to argue.)

Different things of course,I never said they were the same...only the same in that they are both pointless.You see vanishing points and apexes after you have commited to the corner,if you got your entry wrong then you are in damage control.Set the corner up and lay it in,possibly on the slow side...but that means I can get on the gas earlier and have more bike control...soon as I can see an exit or a bloody good idea on where the road goes,feeding in as much power as the rear wheel can handle as the front is sitting pretty good at this point.Get the entry sorted and the rest of the corner is under your control.

[The Stranger:Me]

Quite easy really.

Do you look through the corner.
You should be as you always follow where you look.

Therein lies the problem. You tend to look at the vanishing point. As you do (look to the vanishing point) you look across the centre line on a right hander. Therefore that is where you go.

If you find yourself often wandering across the centre line try looking a little shorter, say to the point on the road where the LHS seal edge and centreline meet (obviously this point will move).

You get dozens of helpful tips such as this when you attend a RRRS course.