Reverse Rotating Rotors again...

[Toast]

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Articl...ID=3207&Page=1

The designer of these things has got them on his '04 ZX6R, and there's a link in the motorcycle-usa article above to a video of him taking that bike around some track in the US.

Not that you can tell much about his claims from watching a video, except that the thing didn't fall over in to a turn or spit him off and kill him.

Motorcycle-USA seem pretty adamant that they're gonna have a ride of the prototype at some stage, so we may soon know whether this thing's the real deal or not...how exciting.

[kro]

Isn't the trade off having more unsprung weight?.

[Toast]

Isn't the trade off having more unsprung weight?.

And the goal of reducing unsprung weight is often to get the thing to turn in quicker (like the old Fireblade 16 inch wheel thing).

Part of it is to allow the suspension to work better too.

I'm not too sure on the physics of it all. On the guy's website, he seems to reckon that the traditional understanding of motorcycle wheel dynamics and their effect on the way a bike handles is flawed...

Point of posting this is that MCUSA reckon they'll test the beast soon, so we'll soon know whether the guy is full of himself or if he's about to revolutionise our sportsbikes.

[Mental Trousers]

Well that video clip showed that it works in a straight line .......

[Jantar]

A wheel is the flywheel that keeps us upright and allows us to multiply our turning force through reverse steering. Having counter rotating flywheels attached to the main flywheel would seem to me to defeat the main purpose.

[sAsLEX]

that it works in a straight line .......

Americans, seem to love their nice straight roads and design their vehicles for it!

[TonyB]

It certainly seems to tip in quickly at the track.
I guess the back wheel provides the stability, so it will still hold itself up in the corners. I wonder though what would happen if he had the rotors spinning faster, to completely cancel out the gyroscopic forces from the front wheel? I suspect it wouldn't turn at all, or at least only as much as the front wheel grip would allow.

[Crasherfromwayback]

A wheel is the flywheel that keeps us upright and allows us to multiply our turning force through reverse steering. Having counter rotating flywheels attached to the main flywheel would seem to me to defeat the main purpose.

That what they are trying to do is make the bike easier to change direction on. The less the weight of said spinning wheel, the easier that is.
Hence carbon discs on GP bikes. While having the discs rotating backwards doesn't make them lighter (heavier even maybe), it does cancel out the gyroscopic effect of the wheel ass, in turn making it easier.
Ever spun a bike wheel while holding it by the axle and tried to turn it from side to side?
It only wants to go straight....hence as someone earlier said....balance yes, but ease of turning no.

[ducatilover]

so will it actually reduce or retard the action of a tankslapper?

[Crasherfromwayback]

so will it actually reduce or retard the action of a tankslapper?

Either....most tank slappers are caused by a really steep (to get them to turn it fast) steering head angle, and lack of trail.
May well make them less violent when you do get one though, with less gyroscopic effect maybe.....?

[ducatilover]

Either....most tank slappers are caused by a really steep (to get them to turn it fast) steering head angle, and lack of trail.
May well make them less violent when you do get one though, with less gyroscopic effect maybe.....?

hmmmm why do that when you could just have a steering damper? itd be lighter too

[Jantar]

That what they are trying to do is make the bike easier to change direction on. The less the weight of said spinning wheel, the easier that is.
Hence carbon discs on GP bikes. While having the discs rotating backwards doesn't make them lighter (heavier even maybe), it does cancel out the gyroscopic effect of the wheel ass, in turn making it easier.
Ever spun a bike wheel while holding it by the axle and tried to turn it from side to side?
It only wants to go straight....hence as someone earlier said....balance yes, but ease of turning no.

Yes, I have taught that trick with a push bike wheel to many people. The wheel does not just try to remain straight, as you try to turn it it will try to topple. To steer the wheel you actually try to topple it.

When applied to a vehicle such as a motorbike, the easier it is to actually change the direction of the front wheel the less the effect of counter steering. Think about what happens during counter steering. To turn right you try to turn the bars to the left. The bars (and hence the wheel) do not actually turn left, but the effect is a multiplication of the force at right angles to the initiating direction. Or IOW the wheel tries to topple to the right. The gyroscopic effect of the rear wheel stops the bike from toppling, and instead the entire bike takes on a lean to the right.

The carbon discs on GP bikes is an attempt to lower the unsprung weight as well as reducing the overall bike weight.

[Patch]

It appears to work quite well, the only true way of knowing is to ride it. He seems to have done his homework and I hope it works out. I know I'd buy one, or two.

[Crasherfromwayback]

hmmmm why do that when you could just have a steering damper? itd be lighter too

Steering dampers are really just a necessary evil.
They slow the steering response and feel in slower corners, and add to the physical effort required.