Submission on proposed Auckland congestion charges

**adamww** · 20th April 2006, 09:26

Keep Motorbikes exempt from road tolls

Is everyone aware that the Ministry of Transport ‘Auckland Road Pricing Evaluation Study is up for discussion and submissions, and according to this document motorcycles are not exempt from the new congestion charges (tolls). Pg 17.

Eg $6.00 to cross the harbour bridge.

MOT site http://www.transport.govt.nz/business/land/arpes/.
Now I am not an expert in this in anyway, but from what I understand most countries do not charge motorcycles as the whole point is to reduce congestion so they should be encouraging us to ride, not the other way round.

I think we need to get as many people as possible to go to the above site, register and make a submission. If we can get this changed it will worth the effort.

Submissions need to be in by the 28 of April so there is not a lot of time.
So let the government know what you think !!! (in a polite manner of course)
Also we need to spread to the word.

OK, this can be as simple as "register, cut & paste".
Example answers are in this thread, so there is no excuse for everyone not doing this.
Once done, please reply so in this thread.

SpankMe

**Scouse** · 20th April 2006, 10:13

Oh well just head out on the NW motorway turn left at the end and head to the Shore through hobsonville if ya realy want to go to the Shore

**Magua** · 20th April 2006, 10:26

Bugger heading through west auckland to or from the shore until they finish the uhc motorway.

**GR81** · 20th April 2006, 10:35

a long detour..!

**popelli** · 23rd April 2006, 20:17

Originally Posted by adamww

motorcycles are not exempt from the new congestion charges (tolls)

Govt policy is to discourage motorcycling, make licences harder to get

based probably on flawed statistics on accident costs re motorcycle accidentes.

not based on the cause of these accidents (cars) but the victims (bikers)

it is reflected in ACC levies

to the Govt, less motorcycles = less expenditure = more money to be redistributed to whom they choose to give it to.

**The Stranger:Me** · 25th April 2006, 23:43

Originally Posted by adamww

Is everyone aware that the Ministry of Transport ‘Auckland Road Pricing Evaluation Study is up for discussion and submissions, and according to this document motorcycles are not exempt from the new congestion charges (tolls). Pg 17.
Eg $6.00 to cross the harbour bridge.
MOT site http://www.transport.govt.nz/business/land/arpes/.
Now I am not an expert in this in anyway, but from what I understand most countries do not charge motorcycles as the whole point is to reduce congestion so they should be encouraging us to ride, not the other way round.
I think we need to get as many people as possible to go to the above site, register and make a submission. If we can get this changed it will worth the effort.
Submissions need to be in by the 28 of April so there is not a lot of time.
So let the government know what you think !!! (in a polite manner of course)
Also we need to spread to the word.

Ok I wasn't.
I missed this thread and it wasn't until I noticed it in the Harold today that I realised submissions close on Friday.

So, a cue from Big_Dave I have put together a submission both for review and for others to use.

From what I gather at the above site you got to address all four questions/statements (underlined below) so here is some thoughts. I have no experience at this so I would welcome any constructive input or suggestions as to how to better get the message across.

The important thing is to GET BLOODY MOVING!!!

Reactions and comments on the study and its findings.
In general I support the idea of the study as being a positive step in the attempt to reduce traffic congestion in Auckland city. For a number of years congestion reduction has been talked about, and whilst there is much talk there has been comparatively little action. The completion of the rail hub at Britomart, the current motorway expansion projects and the addition of bus lanes to the various motorways being notable exceptions. This would appear to be a good next step in the process.

Whether road pricing is a good idea as a means to manage congestion and raise revenue, given its other potential social, economic and environmental impacts.
I believe that road pricing is a good idea as a means to manage congestion and raise revenue. However there is a caveat here. The revenue must be used to reduce congestion and to assist those for whom the scheme has created undue un-anticipated hardship. For example university students may well find the scheme adds unexpected expense. Examples of assisting the reduction of congestion with the funds raised may be the purchase of land in suburban areas to provide for park and ride facilities, the quicker completion of planned motorways, improved/extended rail, encourage business and retail away from the CBD, expedite provision of realistic broadband internet capacity to allow for tele-commuting (un-bundle the local loop FFS) and an alternate harbour crossing.

If the government were to enable road pricing, are there any areas you have identified in the report that could be improved or problems that would need to be overcome?
One area of the report that could be improved is, the report fails to recognize and support factors which currently meet it’s objectives. If the objective is to reduce congestion in the CBD it should recognize and support such measures. For example motorcycles. They take up little space, cause no road damage and put out less pollution than a car, bus or truck. Indeed whilst Motorcycles are specifically included in the charges schedule bicycles are not. Both are ridden on the road and both take up about the same amount of space except bicycles create greater congestion because they travel at a slower speed. It would appear to be inequitable and counter productive to increase the cost of a means of transport which currently meets the objectives of the solution.
I would like to refer you to comments made by the Mayor of London as follows.

"Both motorcycles and scooters are exempt from the congestion charge as they do not cause congestion. The Mayor wishes to make it crystal clear that he has absolutely no intention whatsoever of making scooters and motorcycles pay the congestion charge"

If the government were not to enable road pricing, what other feasible alternatives are there to meaningfully manage congestion, acknowledging the significant investment the government is already making in additional roading and public transport?
I do not see a realistic viable alternative. There are numerous ideas which could help, some of which I have outlined in the questions above, and many others which would have an impact to one degree or another, however given our car culture I doubt these would have anywhere near that significant impact that I believe road pricing would.

**The Stranger:Me** · 25th April 2006, 23:50

Oh and if you are thinking it is an Auckland problem think again.
It is already being mooted for various other centres around NZ.
We need to get bikes excluded.

**gixermike** · 26th April 2006, 00:19

if they are basing this on the 'success' of the london scheme, it is interesting to note the following response to asking if bikes were to be included in the review of charges (it went up last year):

from www.motorcyleparking.com (central london bike website)

Congestion Charge for bikers?! In response to the Evening Standard article on Thursday 24th March about Transport for London considering the option of making bikers pay for entering the Congestion Charging Zone, TFL has issued a statement from London Mayor Ken Livingstone stating that bikes and scooters will remain exempt from congestion charging in the capital.... 'Both motorcycles and scooters are exempt from the congestion charge as they do not cause congestion. The Mayor wishes to make it crystal clear that he has absolutely no intention whatsoever of making scooters and motorcycles pay the congestion charge...' (29 March 2005)

Oh, TLF is transport for london who run the scheme, and the tube, buses etc.

I'll try and find you something on accident stats, as they have fallen dramatically (Car Vs pedestrian, and car Vs bike) even though bike numbers have gone up soemthing like 3 times what they were before the charge.
Maybe worth a net search for it.

Mike

**gixermike** · 26th April 2006, 00:26

oh, and if you want a copy of the uk motorcycle transport policy (it's porbably quite good if you want an example of an inclusive scheme) let me know and i'll email it. or you can download it from

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ads_035439.pdf
you can them bat it back at them if they say they are copying the system here..

doesn't stop me wanting to be in NZ rather than over here though, too many people..too little space.!
Mike

**Jantar** · 26th April 2006, 00:31

Thanks for the information Mike. It shows how out of touch our Ministry of Transport officials are.

**The Stranger:Me** · 26th April 2006, 13:07

Maybe you noted the article on the front page of the Harold, they estimated that it would cost the average household $900.00 per anum.

There were a lot of people concerned about this matter previously, well now is your chance. I really don't want to hear moaning about what did BRONZ do etc etc later. BRONZ is making a submission, however weight of numbers will have a bigger impact.

**_Gina_** · 26th April 2006, 13:14

Originally Posted by CaN

So, a cue from Big_Dave I have put together a submission both for review and for others to use.

So does it matter if the submission is copied and pasted? Or should I play around with it a bit? Also does the number of submissions (in support of excluding motorcycles) work in our favour?

Cheers
G

**Squeak the Rat** · 26th April 2006, 13:26

Originally Posted by girlygirl

So does it matter if the submission is copied and pasted? Or should I play around with it a bit? Also does the number of submissions (in support of excluding motorcycles) work in our favour?

Cheers
G

It's slightly better if it's original, as long as you include all the good points (about motorcylcles

) Personally, I'm against the scheme because I think it will have a negative impact of the local economy so I did my own (actually quite a while ago) - but the point is to make a submission that advocates the use of motorcycles to reduce congestion and therefore not have the same charges.

But a copy & paste is infinitely better than nothing at all. And the number of like-submissions *should* influence the decision.

Only 2 days to go for to get these in....

**James Deuce** · 26th April 2006, 13:29

Originally Posted by popelli

Govt policy is to discourage motorcycling, make licences harder to get

based probably on flawed statistics on accident costs re motorcycle accidentes.

not based on the cause of these accidents (cars) but the victims (bikers)

it is reflected in ACC levies

Who can blame them? Most motorcycle accidents are single vehicle ones, and directly attributable to the rider getting something wrong. A big chunk of motorcycle accidents are us falling off on corners, without any other vehicle being involved..

http://www.transport.govt.nz/busines...e-table-33.pdf

The majority of accidents involving other vehicles happen at intersections, and yes I agree it mostly involves the other vehicle not seeing the motorcycles, but in general we're our own worst enemy. The stats are drawn from reported accidents, and after reading stuff on here, there are a lot of single vehicle motorcycle accidents that go unreported.

I agree though. As an anti-congestion tool, motorcycles are only surpassed by push-bikes.

**Ixion** · 26th April 2006, 13:38

Here is a copy of mine, which anyone is welcome to use in whole or in part.

Rich capitalists will doubtless wish to remove those parts relating to social equity.