NCEA "technology". Is it total bullshit, or am I barking mad?

[sAsLEX]

I thought it was the amps that kill you? That's why you can die from 240V at a power plug but only be paralysed by 20,000V or something from a Taser

tasers are like a 1/3 of a milliamp or something tiny

[MSTRS:Me]

I actually found this on the website of my old school


Now, that looks about as cool as you could get I reckon. If they'd had courses like that when I was at school, every boy in the school would have been clamouring to get into them.

Sorry Ixion - that item refers to Unit Standards not NCEA. U.S. are for the lower stream students who are not expected to be able to pass at NCEA level. Still it does sound cool

[Ixion]

My point.....you worked out what went wrong and how not to repeat that AFTER making a (hands-on) mistake

Yep, that's what works. So , taking the tree analogy, what you do is pick a hard tree, tell the boy to climb it, wait till he falls out of it and knocks himself silly. Then, once he's come round, y'say "OK, lets talk about what went wrong, and how you can do it next time without falling out". He'll listen to that. Theory needs to be seen to be applicable, otherwise it's just waffle.

[Ixion]

Sorry Ixion - that item refers to Unit Standards not NCEA. U.S. are for the lower stream students who are not expected to be able to pass at NCEA level. Still it does sound cool

Arrrggh. Now I'm more confused than ever. So, if the lower streams build sports cars what do the NCEA ones get to do? Build jet fighters?

[MSTRS:Me]

Got it in one, my man. Succinctly put.

[MSTRS:Me]

Arrrggh. Now I'm more confused than ever.

Put in the old terms....NCEA level 1 = School C, Level 2 = UE, Level 3 = Bursary. Since the namby-pamby cardy-wearers can't stand the idea of winners and losers, they decided to include a lower echelon called Unit Standards at every step, just so the cannon-fodder could feel they were achieving great things too.

[BuFfY]

The also have unit standards because they are papers that aren't recognised as being sufficient enough to get into uni. So people who take these lil papers because they think they are easy and are basically just filling up their timetable need to realise they need to have enough real subjects to get UE

[MSTRS:Me]

The also have unit standards because they are papers that aren't recognised as being sufficient enough to get into uni. So people who take these lil papers because they think they are easy and are basically just filling up their timetable need to realise they need to have enough real subjects to get UE

The ones taking these courses were never gunna go to Uni tho, are they? It's just the Social Engineering Brigade's way of ensuring that everyone is a winner

[Ixion]

So why do they all have to go to uni? And why is automotive mechanics not a "reaL" subject. Does a tradesman need to go to uni? We managed very well previously with apprenticeships. I suggest that we need more tradesman more than we need more arts graduates.

Isn't this a reflection of the fundamental problem ? Here's a course that seems to be "boy focused". But its denigrated (by designation, I mean, not getting at anyone here) as "not a real course" and "only for kids who can't pass the 'real' papers". Preety good way to make the boys think "f**k this, then".

[BuFfY]

But these boys don't think that way at all! They love going to a class where they get to get dirty and stuff. I'm not quite sure if there is theory or not... I assume they have a sit down before each class and say righto today this will happen etc.

I'm not saying that these are not 'real subjects' I did health in 5th form and it has Unit standards in it but I learnt so much from them! One was like young child care... uhh.. yeh!

[Rosie]

The also have unit standards because they are papers that aren't recognised as being sufficient enough to get into uni. So people who take these lil papers because they think they are easy and are basically just filling up their timetable need to realise they need to have enough real subjects to get UE

I always thought of Unit standards as being more practical/work oriented and NCEA was more academic/get-into-university.
I've got a couple of unit standards in useful things like workplace first aid and being able to fill out a truck logbook.

I went to a girls school, so we weren't able to do metalwork or woodwork until 5th form. And then we would have to go to the neighboring boys school. I would have liked to do metalwork, but the prospect of being the only girl in a class of girl-crazy 15 year old boys was a bit much. And it was assumed that you only took classes at Nelson College because you wanted to hook up with rugby players. But not nearly as bad as the stigma attached to boys who came to our school to do cooking and sewing so they could meet girls.

[MSTRS:Me]

One of the things that annoys me is the focus on 'education'. There seems to be a school (pun not intended) of thought that education begins at 5 and ends when you leave school (hopefully with a bit of paper with grades on it). Has everyone forgotten that we start learning when we are born & don't (shouldn't?) stop until we die?

[Ixion]

But these boys don't think that way at all! They love going to a class where they get to get dirty and stuff. I'm not quite sure if there is theory or not... I assume they have a sit down before each class and say righto today this will happen etc.

I'm not saying that these are not 'real subjects' I did health in 5th form and it has Unit standards in it but I learnt so much from them! One was like young child care... uhh.. yeh!

I'm sure they do enjoy it. But, the point I'm taking, is that if one sends them the message that such a course isn't a "real" course, then one can hardly be surprised if they don't take the actual *study* part of it seriously, and just devote themselves to the fun part.

And I would think that the reason they love such classes is not because they get to get dirty. It's because they have the opportunity to actually DO stuff, and see it work. Or not work. And then fix it so it DOES work. Instead of a lot of waffle. See, right here we have the yawning chasm between the way males and females approach education (and not just at school)

[Motu]

I'm not really someone who can comment on education...I didn't get a lot of it,and I don't send my 4 kids to school - anti establishment runs deep in this family.

But I took a technical course in high school back in the '60's,and I think Ixion would like some comments from that era.There was obviously some need to keep a strict control on us,we were seperated from our commercial girl counterparts by the width of the whole school,and the width of the school hall,but there must of been some contact as there were still teenage pregnancies.We had much tougher disapline than the academic boys,and caning was a way of life.The only option was woodwork or engineering,and of course I took engineering - we did theory was well as practical,learning about metals and threads and stuff.My first engineering teacher was Mr Ganely,the very same from the firm Watson Steel and Ganely,my next teacher was Mr Slaughter,from the firm Mundle and Slaughter.These guys weren't teachers,they were hands on engineers who had built up sucessful engineering firms,and turned to teach their subject in later years to put back into their industry.

Tech drawing was the class we did our geography homework in,but inbetween topographic maps we drew whitworth bolts and stuff.I sat at the back of the class and came in the bottom 5 every exam - but topped the school in School Cert Tech Drawing,that made the teacher shake his head a bit.''Could do better'' was a common remark in my reports - of course I could do better,but why should I? The rest of the classes the teachers just went through the motions,being technical boys we weren't worth teaching,we were only going into the trades at best,more likely in some factory or roading gang.It was a no brainer that we had no women teachers,only for music once a week,but she realised it was a lost cause so why bother.

Somehow I got a pass in School Cert and half a doz of us came back to make 6 Tech,the first time the school had a 6 form technical class....we were normaly too dumb to get to the 6th form.Just a reflection of the job market,we didn't get jobs,so came back to school.And now I had a problem - Engineering was not a 6th form subject,I had to take woodwork...no fucking way man! So I went into the metalwork shop and they kicked me out and locked the door.I used to stand at the door looking in and the teacher would tell me to piss off.For some reason or other I also stopped going to the other classes and became school groundsman,that was better than classes.Then I got a real job.

I started writting this reply over 4 hrs ago,I've kinda forgotten what the question was - I really enjoyed the metalwork shop,playing around on the lathe,smashing metal on the anvil.Made a crowbar once....I thought the original design wasn't quite right,and shrunk it so I could carry it in my school bag.....

[Rosie]

Made a crowbar once....I thought the original design wasn't quite right,and shrunk it so I could carry it in my school bag.....

A schoolbag sized crowbar would be a prime candidate for credit-thingee # 1.7
"Describe the interactions between a technological innovation and society"