Overtaking

[bluninja]

After Kwaka_Kids comment on my overtaking I just thought I'd post about what I know about safe overtaking. It will either inform and educate or get people challenging my views and suggesting a better way.

Most people do a overtake. They look ahead, see enough room to overtake, accelerate towards the vehicle in front, pull out from behind and overtake, then pull in afterwards.....some actually check, mirrors indicate, do a lifesaver look, but I've assumed that these are de riguer

This is not the best way to overtake. The normal mistake here is that occasionally the road isn't clear and this becomes obvious when you pull out. Problem is that you are now already alongside the vehicle in front and have to brake hard just to get back to your side of the road (or put the hammer down and hug the centre line till past).

The way I would suggest.

1. Do your observations as normal prior to deciding to overtake and move out in a position to overtake, but without closing on the vehicle in front.
2. Now you have a clear view ahead you can check if the overtake is really on. If you've missed something coming the other way, just return to your own side.
3. Accelerate past the vehicle in a straight line that returns you to your own side of the road within 1/3rd the clear distance ahead that you can see.

So how is this different/better? Well you can make it back to your own side of the road if the overtake isn't on; the overtake is cleaner and the bike remains upright and more stable under acceleration; vehicles coming the other way can see you are returning to your side of the road. Completing in 1/3rd of the viewable clear distance allows something to appear in the opposite direction at twice your speed and still let you get back safely.

Other sugestions:

•  If you abort for any reason, make sure you start your observations all over. You will have travelled a fair distance, and there may now be potential hazards to doing the overtake that you haven't seen. (I learnt this the hard way....RSVR overtaking versus tractor turning on to road....Ouch! My original overtake would have completed before the tree lined farm opening)
• Overtake streams of traffic at 10-20 kmh over their speed. This gives you the chance to throttle off and slide back in when traffic appears; or the opportunity to brake before collecting the back of the car that decides to overtake suddenly. Warp speed may get you past the queue quicker and back to your own side of the road, but you risk being collected by the traffic you are overtaking. Try and think of  it as a series of single overtakes where you could move back if you wished.
• Don't follow another rider on an overtake unless you know there is space for you to get back after they are in the new space.

Do not whatever you do overtake me 2 up, popping the front wheel across a bend as it makes me feel really inadequate

 

TTFN Leo Tolstoy

 

[SPman]

Quite so! He had just passed me to! ....It did look rather impressive from behing though..... 

[KiwiDan]

Good safe Overtaking practices blueninja, sounds right to me, but bare in mind ones perspective on reality is quite simply their experiences, no one elses. 

What one feels is safe, one might not, what one feels is fast one might not.

A rule my close friends and I dont break whilst riding together is not so much about speed or one wheel or two, but to ensure your passing is not going in place the other in a bad situation. NO overtaking on the inside at all. The rider in front has right of way and can stand on his/her head if they so desire, you must move passed them with care at all times, this however doesnt have to mean at a speed similar to my granny on her mobility scooter.

Great ride last Sunday, sad some fell,, its all a learning curve.

Dan

 :bigthumb:

PS, Feeling inadequate is a penile thing, an insecurity about ones self, No one else.

[bluninja]

No overtaking bikes on the inside? Sounds good to me...don't even go up the inside on the racetrack....but then I don't overtake much

As for the sense of speed and safety, it really depends on how many chunks of attention you have available at any one time. Learners often feel many things are too fast, becasue they have to think about everything at once. Experienced riders have pushed much of this into habit subroutines and no longer need to think about it. The trick is about creating good habits and routines that are failsafe.

TTFN

[SPman]

I agree.It is important for new riders to get good habits going when they are starting off, so that they become automatic when the going gets tough! ( a bit like services training...?)   New riders tend to get stressed out just coping with the basics, ( it takes a year or two for the average  beginner to get it all sussed - there are exceptions of course!), but if the basic patterns they learn are sound, it augers well for a long and happy riding experience. (generally)

[wkid_one]

I agree entirely, what seems safe overtaking seems to vary from person to person.  All I know is same as KiwiDan, pass me on the outside and I'll never pass you on the inside.  It also depends on your bike, especially for learners - a large capacity sportsbike has a larger margin to overtake than a smaller one (in general) and I have seen learners get caught out riding with faster bikes when trying to follow overtaking and not have the grunt to complete the manuevour safely (name me when I was a learner!!!)

[bluninja]

Good one WKID.....I'd taken for granted that people would know how much grunt they have under them. Since many people learn by observing/following better riders it's something that should be raised.

TTFN

[wkid_one]

The other thing to consider is also the gearing of smaller bikes.  Many learner riders come from cars - where 11-16000rpm ranges are unheard of.  They are used to hearing an engine performing under load at 4-6000rpm max.  This catches many learner riders out when overtaking.

Most 250cc sports bikes redline between 15-17000rpm for a reason - they are designed to be driven at high revs - many learner riders also get caught out overtaking when they are in too high a gear.

Yes, they may sound like a sewing machine doing a button hole - but that is what they should sound like...

Not just a grunt thing but a rev thing also......I know with my VTR, I can pull hard at 2500rpm in 6th - in a 250 that would take hours to pass!!!

Dan

 

[bluninja]

When I said grunt, I assumed you would know I meant where the grunt is not, just how much Ooops, the assume bit has already been done in another thread Just kidding

Following on from the revs thing; nobody has mentioned gear selection. On smaller capacity bikes it may be necessary to drop a gear(or 2) to make sure you have maximum torque/power available at the start of the overtake. Conversely you don't want to be so close to your rev limiter that it starts pinging as you accelerate alongside.

TTFN

 

[aff-man]

I know what you mean the vt250 has enough pull but i find i have to change through 1 (or two at higher speeds) gears to overtake. I was just wondering is it better to start at higher revs with more pull and go through a couple of gear changes, or lower revs less pull and less gear changes?? The bike also bottoms out at 14k revs so it doesn't have as much "leg room" as the zxr250 ect..

[wkid_one]

It can catch people out - especially learners.........rev's are a funny thing - Blu was right in that being too close to cut out can be as bad as being too low in the rev range (if not worse)...

The luxury of most large capacity bikes is that a gear change is usually not required to overtake, which means we can be a little more 'inpromtu' with our overtaking - smaller capacity riders that choose to follow us need to remember that we have shit loads more torque on offer.......

My quote - assumption is the mother of all F&*#up's - sorry Blu for my outburst earlier!

 

D

 

[aff-man]

well i think i'll have to stick to the gear changes because it means a better acceleration when passing. I think i'll stick to passing where i can when my mate (aka coldkiwi) upgraded from a zxr250 to a zx6r I wasn't about to try and overtake like he does. And it true that some of your bigger bikes never even leave 3rd for like everything?????

[bluninja]

3rd?? I thought the RSVR only had 2 gears

WKID no worries.

TTFN

[aff-man]

the luxuary the luxuary

oh well something to really look forward to i suppose

[wkid_one]

And here I was thinking my bike was automatic - I am going to spend all day on it tomorrow exploring the other 5 gears........

The idea of changing down to overtake is absurd (unless a fecken wicked wheelie is involved)....

Just remember with the 250cc's - don't wind the rubber band too tight.................................j/k we were all there once