Cops and that pepper spray

[GR81]

they often twist the story to make for better tv

the mark richardson vs stephen fleming blowout was a typical case of 'tv without knowing the full story'

[Cookie]

A bit of spray in the face should be part of the standard arrest procedure.

"No smoke without fire" - that's what uncle Cookie says!

[Squeak the Rat]

shown on T.V then sure the cops involved should be nailed, but I have a feeling there is alot more to it than what they decided to show.

If there is something else to it then it was either:
1/ It occured before he was restrained. If this is the case then see previous posts about professionalism.
2/ The guy was verbally abusing the cops. THIS DOES NOT JUSTIFY PEPPER SPRAY, BEATINGS OR ANY OTHER FORM OF ASSAULT. If some one abused me or threatened my mother and I attacked them I would be before a court.
3/ The guy was struggling. Well, they managed to cuff him ok without pepper spray, so I'm sure they could get him into the paddy wagon also.

Sure this guy may have deserved to get dealt to, but it is the job of the courts to decide that, and to decide on the punishment. If our society accepts that this is a role for the cops then we are living in a police state.

[The_Dover]

I hear Wendy's are hiring.

[Winston001]

The only excuse I can think of is if the offender knew one cop and said that he was going to get his kids. That would probably get to most of us. But in that case the officers would have reacted with anger. Instead they hardly noticed that the spray was used - all very casual and relaxed.

[mummy rider]

I understand sometimes the police are put under pressure and yes sometimes these sprays need to be used but to make a judgement on this we really need to see the whole picture not just what the TV wants us to view.

I recently had a bloke drive thru my front yard fence, back out and try to drive away, I had to jump thru his drivers window and fight for the keys, luckily a mate was passing and stopped me from bashing the bastard with the kids baseball bat and when I did place my call I was put thru to a answer machine as our local coppa doesn't start till 10am. The accident was at 9.42am., by the time I found a live person on the line it was in CHCH and had to wait till 11.20am for a Hornby HWY patrol.....
The reason I was pissed off that I had six kids playing in the yard, (not all mine) he was then done for dangerous driving, falling to stop at the scene of an accident, no WOF or REG, no licence, breath tested but hey the time had passed, and the driver then had the balls to ask that assault charges be laid against me.

What do you do when your on the receiving end?

P.S, he only just missed the shed with the BMW Triumph and Honda in it....

[Fluffy Cat]

Good thread, let that anger out.
Was once a cop and that was out of order he should be stuck on for that one. Very dumb, and the camara does not lie, there may be more to it ie verbals. But the man was restrained, doubt he will lose his job though. Might get a fine and slap on wrist. This is NZ you kill without reason 15 years. So slap on wrist.

[Squeak the Rat]

Just for the record I can understand why cops would want to do that sort of thing in certain circumstances. But that doesn't make it right.

A number of years ago I had a cop tell me that I "fucken deserved" being pushed backwards hard onto the concrete (minor bruising etc), and next time I shouldn't be "such a fucking prick".

Why did I deserve it? I was slightly drunk, didn't see the cop about to run past me and I stepped in front of him. In their eyes I did it on purpose to piss the cops off.

Doesn't make me hate cops, far from it. But it does make me a little cynical of the "he deserved it" argument.

[spudchucka]

After reading most of this thread I struggle to find any reason to reply at all. But....

On the face of it, (the footage shown on TV) it certainly does look bad. But.....

What pissess me off about the media is that they will show an isolated portion of an incident that they deem to be news worthy and that portion of the incident alone is not representative of the entire incident. If they are going to show an incident like that why don't they show they entire incident? At least then you bunch of moaning twits will see the incident in context.

I've sprayed people who have been handcuffed quite a few times, each time was totally justified. A few incidents that come to mind:

1: Crazy woman gets locked up for assault, handcuffed, placed in back of car, while driving to the station lies on her back and kicks the cop driving, the car (me) in the head, then tries to kick me through the gap between the front seats. SPRAY - no more kicking, all arrive safely at the station.

2: Street violence, fight involving 3 - 4 drunk guys, all get locked up, one idiot who had been given a good crack and had a profusely bleeding nose and mouth kept on trying to spit blood on the cops and the other guys he'd been fighting with, he was handcuffed at the time but was still spoiling for a fight with anybody that would respond. SPRAY - no more blood spitting, the idiot sits down and cries.

: Mental & suicidal person, locked up to prevent suicide, it took three cops to get this person under control, once handcuffed they started to bite chunks out of their arms. SPRAY - stopped self harming for a little while, maybe ten minutes then started up again, was eventually fully hog tied, (arms and legs behind the back and linked together), which is a more dangerous method of restraint than OC spray due to the risk of positional asphyxia.

Whats to say the guy wasn't self harming, biting, spitting or sucking himself off in plain view of the prime minister. You certainly wouldn't know from the news article.

Greg O'Connor said the cops knew they were being filmed, conclusion, the cop was either an idiot with a desire to be sacked and publicly humiliated or his actions were totally justified and he had no reason to be concerned about being filmed.

But fuck it, you guys are the experts, just like Keith Locke the self appointed expert on all things policing and military, you've all made your minds up based soley on a TV news report. They'll have their enquiry and in 12 months time the result won't even make the news and all you lot will remember is the images played on TV - fucken pigs, immoral, corrupt arseholes!

[oldrider]

Winstone001 saw it the same way that I saw it.
Nothing going on for quite some minutes and then the cop on the right casually leans slightly over and casually gives the guy on the ground a dusting!
He then casually holsters the sprayer and appears to continue the casual chat.
The whole thing seemed to be so laid back and surreal.
I just sat there watching the screen thinking to myself, I wonder what that would be like if you were wearing contact lenses? (SpeedMedic??)
I think the nation suffers from too much exposure to special effect TV and movies.
The poor old cops are out there in the real world 24/7 protecting our interests and all we seem to do is kick them in the balls when they fuck up and now we treat our soldiers the same way.
Old saying: We reap what we sow! Cheers John.

[Ixion]

It is true that sometimes TV coverage is edited, and may not portray the full story. But I do not see that the police have any grounds to object to the matter being investigated. Their position then is the same as many people have found themselves in when , for instance, defending their homes. The police response is always "Well, it is not up to us to decide if what you did is right or wrong. There is prima facie evidence, so we will arrest and charge you, and leave it to the courts to decide".

In this case, there would certainly seem to be prima facie evidence . And as the cops involved are not being charged just investigated by the PCA, who are themselves cops, they will certainly have an easier time than Joe Public would.

[Patrick]

TV3 camera on the blink? Tens of Thousands of dollars for those cameras. No sound at all...??? Insert Tui moment here...

Sure looked bad. Nice editing!

No doubt the enquiry will obtain footage including sound...and events leading up to the arrest as well as after etc.

But hey, lets convict and shoot the cop now, without trial, etc etc... deny him the rights every one else has... including kiddie fiddlers/murderers etc...

I'd rather await the result of the full investigation before convicting, hanging and whipping the cop, but only when the full story is out.

Yep, sure as hell looks badfrom that snippet on TV. Yep, he knew he was being filmed. More to this story??? Hhmmmmmmmmm.............

[marty]

Winstone001 saw it the same way that I saw it.
Nothing going on for quite some minutes and then the cop on the right casually leans slightly over and casually gives the guy on the ground a dusting!
.

oh how easily the lines of truth are blurred.

i'm sure i only saw about 5 seconds of activity before he was sprayed. where did you see 'quite some minutes' of same?

and it was the cop on the guys left.

and believe me, you don't have to be angry to spray someone. it may (should) have been a calculated decision to do so.

the guys mate standing there didn't seem too perturbed by it all - was he aware that the spray was imminent?

[Patrick]

... just investigated by the PCA, who are themselves cops, ..

Not quite right. PCA is independent from Police. Initial enquiries conducted by Police, but PCA is headed by a judge with a team of investigators. Watch this space, this will go through all the motions, just to show how up front the Police Dept is.

[jimbo600]

1: Crazy woman gets locked up for assault, handcuffed, placed in back of car, while driving to the station lies on her back and kicks the cop driving, the car (me) in the head, then tries to kick me through the gap between the front seats. SPRAY - no more kicking, all arrive safely at the station.

Doesn't that OC spray go everywhere? Thought you might have copped a bit of spray yourself in a confined space such as a car. Thats why I reckon the guy on tv is full of it when he said he was sprayed again in the back of the van.

Bring on Tazers.