Ok Cullen....

[MSTRS:Me]

There will ALWAYS be new taxes - there like clamidia keeps coming back

The right analogy would be that if taxes were an STD (sorry STI) then clymidia gets added to herpes gets added to genital warts gets added to syphillis....see where this is going?
Wouldn't be so bad if I could get treatment on the NHS for the AIDS they left me with in the '80s.

[SPman]

Geez - what a pack of fuckin winjas........

[oldrider]

And if every single budget had tax cuts in it, we'd end up paying no tax, (Whats wrong with that?)

and then our society would goto shit.. (Why?)

Dunno why everyones so uppity, its not like we're any WORSE off than we were before. (Speak for your self, I am worse off)

I want to invest my own money where I want to invest it, for my benefit!

I don't want them (the Govt) stealing my money to invest it for some one else's benefit, Just so that they will vote them back into power!

I don't want them (the Govt) stealing/devaluing my share investments/savings, just so that they (the govt) can run down Telecom to a state where they can Nationalise it again just to suit their ideological beliefs.

Yes I am a lot worse off under this Labour Government than I was before they came to power and every way I turn they carve more and more tax out of our savings/investments.

We are now getting too old to fight back, can't get a job now, can't get a loan to start a business everything we own is depreciating, can't afford to replace it, cost of living escalating.

Sure they give me a pension but that is a pittance compared to what they take away to give to some one else who doesn't do anything to help them selves.

Our house has increased in value but we have to live there until we die then I hope at least the family might get something back, if they are lucky!

What do you mean we are no worse off? (50% more tax) I am not a National supporter but they were the better offer of the "two" at the election. (IMHO) John.

[Finn]

I want to invest my own money where I want to invest it, for my benefit!

I don't want them (the Govt) stealing my money to invest it for some one else's benefit, Just so that they will vote them back into power!

I don't want them (the Govt) stealing/devaluing my share investments/savings, just so that they (the govt) can run down Telecom to a state where they can Nationalise it again just to suit their ideological beliefs.

Yes I am a lot worse off under this Labour Government than I was before they came to power and every way I turn they carve more and more tax out of our savings/investments.

We are now getting too old to fight back, can't get a job now, can't get a loan to start a business everything we own is depreciating, can't afford to replace it, cost of living escalating.

Sure they give me a pension but that is a pittance compared to what they take away to give to some one else who doesn't do anything to help them selves.

Our house has increased in value but we have to live there until we die then I hope at least the family might get something back, if they are lucky!

What do you mean we are no worse off? (50% more tax) I am not a National supporter but they were the better offer of the "two" at the election. (IMHO) John.

This is the begining of a long friendship.

It's a pity that more people don't sit down and work it out like you did. Unfortunately, most of the people that support labour don't have anything to loose. It's rich people like yourself that should be penalised. You're a capitlist pig for being able to own a house in the first place. This country disgusts me.

[Jamezo]

I don't want them (the Govt) stealing/devaluing my share investments/savings, just so that they (the govt) can run down Telecom to a state where they can Nationalise it again just to suit their ideological beliefs.

Ah....

The way I look at it, Telecom operating an effective monopoly only benefits one group: Telecom shareholders. I am not one of them. Are Telecom not effectively 'taxing' the entire country by being allowed to operate the largest racket in the country?

The Government owes its allegience not to the NZSX, but to the people. It would be imprudent not to exercise its power to the benefit of the bulk of the people (the exact nature of which would be a whole new thread).

I'm sorry if you've just seen some of your capital wiped out, but that's what you get for throwing your chips in with the capitalists, especially in such an industry so dependent on Government regulation.

Ideology doesn't come into it. I say congratulations to Labour for showing some balls in a rare event, and throwing its weight around to achieve something worthwhile. Though I may add I am wholeheartedly in favour of absolute nationalisation for such critical industries as telecommunications. Then we might be able to take advantage of such unspeakable activities as 'centralised planning'!??!?!!

[Winston001]

Ah....

The way I look at it, Telecom operating an effective monopoly only benefits one group: Telecom shareholders. I am not one of them. Are Telecom not effectively 'taxing' the entire country by being allowed to operate the largest racket in the country?

I'm sorry if you've just seen some of your capital wiped out, but that's what you get for throwing your chips in with the capitalists, especially in such an industry so dependent on Government regulation.

Of course another view is that the rule of law has been subverted by the Executive (Cabinet).

In 1988 approx we sold Telecom. Lets ignore the arguments about price etc. In the long term this NZ company is now owned substantially by Kiwi shareholders - Mum and Dad. What Telecom owns is private property, held for the benefit of its shareholders.

The concept of private property is sacroscant in Western democracies. If a government wants the property - it buys it. Plain and simple.

But not this time. Our sheltered academic leaders have with the stroke of a pen taken private property. Using regulations to impose unbundling is nothing less than theft.

If Labour were honest about it, they'd compulsorily buy Telecom's lines. As it is, Mr Mugabe would feel perfectly at home here now.

[Indiana_Jones]

Dear God what have I started?

-Indy

[Jamezo]

The concept of private property is sacroscant in Western democracies. If a government wants the property - it buys it. Plain and simple.

But not this time. Our sheltered academic leaders have with the stroke of a pen taken private property. Using regulations to impose unbundling is nothing less than theft.

If Labour were honest about it, they'd compulsorily buy Telecom's lines. As it is, Mr Mugabe would feel perfectly at home here now.

Close. Our concept of private property is sacrosanct to heavily capitalist countries.

Private property is all fine up to a point. When the exclusive ownership of something as important as the case here conflicts with the interests of the people, the Government should be obligated to act.

I'm not going to necessarily ignore the issue of price. Why should we pay the full market price to buy back an asset sold under its worth? Consider it a reversal of the bone we chucked to the capitalists.

If you really cannot make the distinction between the private PRIVATE property seized by the Mugabe regime, and intervention in a critical piece of national infrastructure, then you're more heavily indoctrinated than I gave you credit for. Top drawer.

[Ixion]

Of course another view is that the rule of law has been subverted by the Executive (Cabinet).

In 1988 approx we sold Telecom. Lets ignore the arguments about price etc. In the long term this NZ company is now owned substantially by Kiwi shareholders - Mum and Dad. What Telecom owns is private property, held for the benefit of its shareholders.

The concept of private property is sacroscant in Western democracies. If a government wants the property - it buys it. Plain and simple.

But not this time. Our sheltered academic leaders have with the stroke of a pen taken private property. Using regulations to impose unbundling is nothing less than theft.

If Labour were honest about it, they'd compulsorily buy Telecom's lines. As it is, Mr Mugabe would feel perfectly at home here now.

You are wrong on many counts. Telecom is not owned by "mum and dad" It is owned by overseas capitalists.

And the government has not takne anything - property private or otherwise. It has simply demanded that a corporation (which exists, let us remember, for ONE reason only - to make as much profit as possible for its overseas owners) allow other corporations to offer us a competative service. Those other corporations will have to pay Telecom for access to those lines.

And very little "private property" is "sacrosanct". And it is certainly nonsense to claim that private property is sacrosanct in any "western democracy" - whatever that is. Real estate is not. Nobody in this country can have absolute ownership of land - it is held by fee simple, and can always be reclaimed by the Crown. Which is done quite often when it is required for motorways, power pylons etc.

Your private property , your bike, may be seized and sold if you act in a way that is against the public interest - by riding when drunk.

In this case the government has acted very properly, by taking steps to see that the public interest is respected, since it had become plain that Telecom wa not going to do so voluntarily. That is why we HAVE a government to protect the public from the rapacity of capitalist exploitation.

Myself, of course, I want the government to nationalise Telecom (and Vodfone and Telstra) lock stock and barrel. Without compensation. As a start.

[scumdog]

And the government has not takne anything - property private or otherwise. It has simply demanded that a corporation (which exists, let us remember, for ONE reason only - to make as much profit as possible for its overseas owners) allow other corporations to offer us a competative service. Those other corporations will have to pay Telecom for access to those lines.


Your private property , your bike, may be seized and sold if you act in a way that is against the public interest - by riding when drunk.

Iart.

Re the first statement: The Govt sold it (after getting taxpayers to pay for a lot of upgraded technology to be installed to make it seem more attractive to the potential buyer) as it was "costing the taxpayers too much money to run, a private company should be able to run it more profitably, besides we are here to run the country - not business"

So they achieved that aim - NOW they claim it is making too much money and has a monopoly - WTF it had a monopoly when it was Govt run!!! and SHOULD have been able to make a profit too.

And if the Govt has such a cavalier attitude to private property then it is no wonder we have so many leeches holding thier hand out - no incentive to own anything/do anything to better yourself.

BTW I bought a car while overseas - and the Govt stings me with the GST on that transaction - they sure as hell have a long pair of claws!!

[Phurrball]

Oh no he wouldn't. He is detested here. (snip).

Don't know the situation re the sausage, but living where he is now is by choice and convenience (workload) I'm sure. I'm sure if there was no MMP Cullen would still be the member for Dunedin South with a huge majority. Putting someone like Cullen on the list is pragmatic - exactly why Don Brash is list only too. It's not like Cullen is the only one in that situation. They all do it. It's smart political strategy.

(snip) This country disgusts me.

Nyeh! You know where the border is if you don't like it. This place is still paradise regardless of the colour of gubbermint.

[MSTRS:Me]

So what you are saying is that the slimiest pollies that the public would vote OUT in an instant are the ones put on the party list(s) ??

[Finn]

Nyeh! You know where the border is if you don't like it. This place is still paradise regardless of the colour of gubbermint.

I'm sorry, but that fact that you live in Langholm and walk around your house naked means I can't take you seriously. Ahhh yes, the border... Currently this is in Somalia somewhere.

Look hippy, I know NZ is a paradise. That's why I'm concerned for it's future. Like I've said before, I'll leave once I've finished milking this place.

[mstriumph]

It's a budget for a stable future. Or some shit

there's usually a lot of shit found in stables ?

[Pixie]

I dont like his politics, and I hate his political party, but Micheal Cullen is actually a realy nice bloke. Got to meet and chat to him about 10 years ago, and hes a nice guy and VERY intelligent.

And if every single budget had tax cuts in it, we'd end up paying no tax, and then our society would goto shit.. Dunno why everyones so uppity, its not like we're any WORSE off than we were before.

He's a smug,smart alec,cunt