Those cheesecutter/wire median barriers

**Drum** · 12th August 2006, 20:38

Im not aware of them being banned in any countries at all.
Happy to stand corrected if someone has a link to an article.

**Deano** · 12th August 2006, 20:54

Originally Posted by renegade master

I fully agree with winja on this. Yes they are dangerous and in stupid places,

Nuff said really.

Originally Posted by renegade master

the fact is there are alot more cars than bikes on the road

Isn't the road there for ALL road users ?

And, in other aspects of everyday life, don't the 'vulnerable' get more 'care and attention' from Aunty Helen and her socialist brethren ?

Why are we different ? Cause it's our choice ? Not so for people who can only afford to buy and run a scooter.

Originally Posted by renegade master

these things work awesomely well for stopping cars while protecting the people inside them.

Well a video posted in here shows an SUV clearly being catapulted back into the lane, potentially in front of following traffic. Following traffic should be able to stop in time you ask....that might be the case if people observed the 2 second rule.

Originally Posted by renegade master

Not having them there will cost more lives than having them there.

And there is no better alternative ? Oh, of course, it's all about money...and haven't they gathered enough revenue to cover the costs ?

Maybe the Govt would have the funding if they put the money taxed from motorists back into the roads, instead of the "consolidated fund" which pays for........????

**The_Dover** · 12th August 2006, 20:59

Originally Posted by Deano

Well a video posted in here shows an SUV clearly being catapulted back into the lane, potentially in front of following traffic. Following traffic should be able to stop in time you ask....that might be the case if people observed the 2 second rule.

I haven't seen that video but I'm certain that was the reason they canned the use of them in the uk.

**Drum** · 13th August 2006, 07:40

Part of the testing and certification process involves where the car "rebounds" to after striking the barrier. I.e. the car must end up within a certain box on the test range. Of course in any given crash there are many variables, any one of which could alter where the vehicle comes to rest.

I havn't seen the video in question, but I have seen a number of videos where these barriers have saved people from head on crashes, including one where a car would've been crushed by a road train.

And yet, cheese cutters still give me the heebie jeebies when Im riding past, especially when theyre on the outside of a corner.

**cooneyr** · 13th August 2006, 10:17

Originally Posted by Deano

Being on the inside doesn't make you more cynical ?

It does for me cause you can see the political BS for what it is, and you have the 'inside story'...I.E the facts.

Yep sure does. Not only the policy side of it but the red tape too.

[rant]
Seriously - my philosophy is "for the greater good". With most community projects you will never keep everybody happy (this thread is a case in point) but you have to do the best you can with what you have (or what the govt decides you are allowed). As perioviously said I'm in transport planning and we can never propose a project that will keep everybody happy so have to propose one that is the most benefitial for the most people possible. Problem is you very infrequently get the people who are happy with the proposal speaking out and supporting it, rather you get the naysayers making all the noise. We are such an apathetic country that the only people we hear from are the anti/negative/adversly affected ones and everything we hear is negative. Where is all the support got the good things aye? Maybe we should have a forum "things I like about this country and its roads". How many responces would that one get - my cynical side tells me not many. [/rant]

R

**Wolf** · 13th August 2006, 13:21

Originally Posted by cooneyr

How many responces would that one get - my cynical side tells me not many. [/rant]

R

Ah, I see that your experiences from being "on the inside" of this forum have also made you cynical...

**mdooher** · 13th August 2006, 17:09

Originally Posted by Deano

So are they banned or what ?

If so, will Winja and all the advocates of these barriers take heed and admit they are wrong ?

Looks Like I was a bit premature there....I read that at least 2 years ago...it appears only Norway and the Netherlands made changes, the rest seem to think that until there is more evidence that the wire rope restraint system meets EN1317 However many countries are now doing real crash test dummy type stuff and comming to the same conclusion. Why are they testing... cos the riders are pushing real hard. So... write to your MP ...write to transit.... write to santa if you think it will help. Oh and do look here

http://www.fema.kaalium.com/crashbar...ashbarrier.MPG Imagine what would happen if we could afford to play something like that on prime time TV each night for a week

**mdooher** · 13th August 2006, 17:21

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/G1424

The following quote is dated 06 August

"MAG Netherlands have been very successful with their continued drive for the fitting of motorcycle–friendly crash barriers and the removal of wire rope barriers fitted in the Netherlands with the last wire rope barrier in the Netherlands being dismantled last month!"

and continues
"In Norway NMCU report that the Norwegian Minister of Transport has announced a ban on further use of cable barriers. Unfortunately she could not promise the immediate removal of existing cable barriers, but still...it is a glorious victory!"

there you go then

"In the UK the Highways Agency has previously stated that any central reservation vehicle restraint systems (which would include Armco and wire rope systems) fitted on UK roads, that they maintain, will, when in need of replacement, be replaced with concrete barrier systems."

Even the poms are starting to see the light

**Drum** · 14th August 2006, 08:32

Yep, thats an interesting article Mdooher.
Im going to forward the link to some ex colleagues of mine who still work in the industry, to see if they are aware of those moves in Europe.

**Nikolai_V** · 29th January 2008, 14:06

Interestingly enough, it appears that the barriers are being removed not because of statistics showing they are nessecarily more dangerous than other types, but because of politicians bowing to pressure. Cite?

"In particular, Norway, Denmark and Holland have either removed or decided to no longer install WRSBs in response to lobbying by motorcycle groups despite there being no conclusive evidence that WRSBs are a greater or lesser risk than other types of barriers" - Motorcyclists and Wire Rope Barriers , Transit Positioning Paper (prepared by Opus International Consultants 2006)

Of note, Sweden still has quite a large amount of WRSB on their roads (and one of the lowest road tolls in Europe) mind you its a bit cold to ride their much of the year.... They were pioneers in introducing it in median applications, and a lot of traffic engnineering and road safety development is driven by the swedes