Australia & France.

[Dafe]

This morning, I would like to take my hat off to both Australia and France.

First of all - France, for realising what a bullshit organisation the United Nations council is.
France has closed their doors to immigrants, stating that the only immigrants France will bring in are those that are Highly skilled and those that are in high demand. This obviously aggrivating the UN council .
Thats the good thing about the French, they aren't afraid to tell the rest of the world to fuck off. Big ups to French Government.

Secondly, Australia - For John Howard speaking out that they will always back the U.S. in whatever they encounter.
Coincidently, Bush spoke out saying that Australia is recognised as Americas number one allie.
Well done Australia, they've never forgotten the day America came to their aid and saved democracy as we know it.
This NZ Government has long forgotten, and the majority of the people of this country (excluding the returned services of course), too easily forget what others have done for us.

[Kickaha]

Well done Australia, they've never forgotten the day America came to their aid and saved democracy as we know it.

Just refresh my memory and let me know when this happened?

If you're talking WW2 you need to read a bit more history

[James Deuce]

What a load of shit Dafe.

I suggest you go back to the 1820s, see who established the musket and blanket economy in NZ (plus syphilis influenza, and a range of poxes), and then look up the Canberra pact of 1944. The US fucked our economy when NZ & Australia asked for Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, and other Commonwealth protectorates in the Pacific back once the war was over, on behalf of the Commonwealth. Australia, the pack of limp wristed cowards backed down. The US then billed us for every bit of lend-lease equipment, and withdrew logistical and spares support. We had no cash until the 80s. You probably don't remember, but once upon a time you were only allowed to take $200 overseas with you, and car imports were heavily regulated. Purely because we had no cash reserves.

I had two Great Uncles die in the Solomons in WWII because the US military hospitals weren't allowed to treat NZ troops. They died of dystentary.

By the way, the US isn't a democracy. Two parties CANNOT represent the "people" of any country.

FOr anyone who still entertains the fantasy that the US saved Australia and NZ from the Japanese, the Pacific war was a sideshow compared to China (at least for the Japanese and Chinese), and the Japanese did NOT in ANY way have the logistics capability to move enough troops to take NZ let alone Australia. Yamamoto and Fuchida knew the war was over on Dec 8th 1941.

As for the US saving Europe? Bollocks. Russian foot soldiers defeated Hitler, NOT US Bombers and GIs. They would have done it without our "help" too.

One minute France is pilloried for being a bunch of "cowards", the next we are celebrating their uniqueness. Make your minds up, you right wing, pro -capitalist minions!

I'm proud of NZ, proud of the essentially anti-oppression, pro-human stance we take on the world stage, and damn proud that we have the balls to put militarism in its place, and thrilled to hear that NZ troops are in hot demand for UN mandated peace keeping missions.

I'm ashamed that we don't have the capability to agressively maintain our borders and territorial claims though. The bloody National party should have bought those F16s while they had the chance.

[MidnightMike]

France has closed there doors to immigrants, stating that the only immigrants France will bring in are those that are Highly skilled and those that are in high demand.

Why cant we do that, Itll sure make things better I reckon.

[Kickaha]

Why cant we do that, Itll sure make things better I reckon.

How will it make things better?

[Motu]

ohmigod...what about the budget has caused this love fest with the USA? Please leave before they won't let you in.

[Ixion]

[LEFT]What a load of shit Dafe.

I suggest you go back to the 1820s, see who established the musket and blanket economy in NZ (plus syphilis influenza, and a range of poxes), and then look up the Canberra pact of 1944. The US fucked our economy when NZ & Australia asked for Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, and other Commonwealth protectorates in the Pacific back once the war was over, on behalf of the Commonwealth. Australia, the pack of limp wristed cowards backed down. The US then billed us for every bit of lend-lease equipment, and withdrew logistical and spares support. We had no cash until the 80s. You probably don't remember, but once upon a time you were only allowed to take $200 overseas with you, and car imports were heavily regulated. Purely because we had no cash reserves.
,,

FOr anyone who still entertains the fantasy that the US saved Australia and NZ from the Japanese, the Pacific war was a sideshow compared to China (at least for the Japanese and Chinese), and the Japanese did NOT in ANY way have the logistics capability to move enough troops to take NZ let alone Australia. Yamamoto and Fuchida knew the war was over on Dec 8th 1941.

As for the US saving Europe? Bollocks. Russian foot soldiers defeated Hitler, NOT US Bombers and GIs. They would have done it without our "help" too.

,,,

Essentially correct. The US capitalists made enormous profits out of WW2.Just like Iraq, really. start a war, and then rake in the money. The US economy is founded on blood.

And it is quite correct that NZ and Australia were never in any danger from Japan (apart from some nuisance bombing, and naval depradation).

'Twas probably Dec 9th, when they realised they'd missed the carriers. And it was more General Winter who defeated Mr Hitler rather than Russian foot soldiers. Though they played their part. Certainly a more significant part than the USA.

Where were the US troops in North Africa? In eastern Europe? In the Mediterranean?

It didn't really happen the way it is portrayed in the Yank movies.

And if the French hadn't been such a vindictive bunch of cunts after WW1 we might not have had to deal with a WW2 at all.

[Big Dave]

Just refresh my memory and let me know when this happened?

When little Johnny worked out that was how to get an urestricted free trade deal and endless cashed up tourists.

Australia WAS under threat from Japan - and the Battle of the Coral Sea and the Bravery of Australian troops on the Kokoda Trail saved the nation's north from an invasion.

You think otherwise you need to study OUR history too. Darwin was a strategic target.

[Smorg]

What a load of shit Dafe.


As for the US saving Europe? Bollocks. Russian foot soldiers defeated Hitler, NOT US Bombers and GIs. They would have done it without our "help" too.

I fully agree with you on everything except the above point & that australians are limp wristed...BD has covered that bit for me. The russian foot soldiers were to poorly equipped to take down hitlers armys. The thing that defeated the germans on the russian front was the winter it froze the fuel in all thier armour and also the germans were not clothed properly and hundreds and thousands of them froze to death, meanwhile the russians kept slowy retreating burning any food suppys and shelters and the germans logistical planning was not prepared for the winter or the lack of food and shelter.....hence thier defeat

[onearmedbandit]

What about the Russian foot soldiers who took Berlin, and raised the Russian flag in time For Moscows May Day parade??

[The_Dover]

Everyone knows Winston Churchill and the Poms won the war.

[Smorg]

What about the Russian foot soldiers who took Berlin, and raised the Russian flag in time For Moscows May Day parade??

one of my all time favourite photographs that one.....was trying to attach it but my computer wont let me.......

[thatHurt]

The winter stopped the German advance into Moscow & Stalingrad and very brave fighting by the Russians eventually turned the Germans around.

Then the big tank battle at Kursk was the turning point for the Russians. They could produce a lot more of the T34 than the Germans could their Tigers/Pansers. The German tanks were over-engineered and couldn't be serviced properly with such long supply lines across Russia/Poland.

The Russian T34 tank and unlimited supply of soldiers AND American manufacturing won the war for the allies. The Commonwealth, French, Polish US etc soldiers certainly played a huge part but not necessarily a defining one.

[Hitcher]

I have a degree of sympathy for the Russians. Not only did Mr Hitler and his military endeavour to invade Russia, he slaughtered Russian civilians by the millions. The "holocaust" may have a better PR machine, but the Russian losses were significantly higher.

With no support from their western allies, the Russians fought the Germans to a standstill on the eastern front, arguably with lesser quality kit and with the assistance of "General Winter". But don't forget that winter wasn't much fun for the Russians either.

Once they achieved a tipping point, the Russians overran the Germans at some pace -- don't forget who it was who overran Berlin and was responsible for liberating many allied prisoners of war, all of whom were treated considerably better by the Germans than were Russian prisoners (Russians didn't get Red Cross food parcels, mail from home, etc).

And if they hadn't stopped at that point, the Red Army could probably have overrun all of Germany and a large chunk of the Benelux before the Allies arrived. Wouldn't that have changed the subsequent political face of Europe?

And did they (the Russians) get any thanks for this from their "allies"? Not really. Hence all of the stand-offed-ness that (amongst other things) contributed to the Cold War.

And don't get me started about the United States of America and "democracy" -- either in the US or in countries where over the years they have "asserted" themselves (Panama, Chile, The Philippines, Granada, Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia...).

[Swoop]

Since this has turned into a history thread.....

35 million Russians killed during the Great Patriotic War.

It is interesting to know that WW2 had such a dependance on oil, as does the "new and improved wars" at the moment.
Germany lacked oil reserves prior to WW2 and imported and refined what they used. At the commencement of operation Barbarossa they had enough fuel for only 30 days combat and relied upon capturing Russian supplies. Our friendly bears took to the scorched earth policy of denying the enemy ANYthing useable.

Once the allies figured out the fuel situation and began attacking strategic oil/fuel production and distribution, the tide of war took a dramatic turn.

As for the comment about the Russian foot soldier... they fought all the way from the Volga to Berlin. On numerous attacks it was only the front row of soldiers who were issued with weapons. The next troops in line had to pick up the dropped weapon from the dead soldier in front of them, and continue the advance.

If they had not met up with allied troops, the Russians would have kept heading west until all German forces were eliminated...

Dos Vedanya.