Death on Everest

[Macktheknife]

It wasn't Ingles himself so why should he bare the brunt of the conflict ?

The area is the dead zone: One step One breath with oxygen, its an area where one mistake is fatal.
The brit climber had been without oxygen for considerable time & had frost bite to all extremities (limbs & other bits would have had to have been amputated if he been brought down).


Sir Ed forgets the documentary where his own son had footage of bodies on the mountain and his explaination of why they were left there & the risks involved removing them.

An excellent point!
There are MANY other bodies all over that mountain, no-one is in any hurry to get them down, mostly due to the risks involved in doing so. 40 experts decided this was the right thing to do, seems like a good decision to me.

[BarBender]

Mass communications sucks. All it takes is for the media to think up an angle, reinforce it by asking Ed for comment and spin its as

"Mark Ingles Walks Past Dying Man"

not "40 Climbers Walk Past Dying Brit"

or even "Brit Climber Dies on Everest".

Unfortunately it will never be "Physically Disabled Kiwi Conquors Everest" (which is what it will probably be around the world except here)

On another note - I wonder what would have happend if Ingles had abandoned his assent to help the Englishman and then died in the attempt to get down the mountain.

"Extraordinary Kiwi Dies/Abandons Climb To Save Fellow Climber".

We love underdogs - even better when they die.

[SwanTiger]

I wonder how many of you heroic souls have actually faced cold mountainous conditions and felt the humbling life and death reality they bring to your attitude.

I for one have and is why I commented.

In no way am I experienced in mountaineering but despite people thinking of me to be a fat useless cunt I am very active where outdoors are concerned.

There is nothing I love more than standing on the edge of a Bluff or atop a Sumit looking out.

Where this fella David is concerned, personally, I will not accept any excuse.

Short story - at the pools with my older sister many years ago as a little kid, I decide to jump into the deep end and get into strife, begin to struggle and eventually enter into panic and pass out, the last thing I recall is seeing the bright lights blurred through the water. Next thing I remember is an old lady with a blank face carrying me to a seat. She got a lifeguard to come over and then walked off.

I wasn't her child, she was a fucken old lady and there were other people there trained and employed to do exactly what she did.

Point being - she had no responsibility for me, yet quite possibly saved my life.

And that is what I like about most New Zealanders, regardless of who or what you are, when you need a hand one or more are always there to lend it. In this case, every New Zealander on that mountain let me and whoever else has that basic 'ideal' down.

The reason Mark is getting so much shit is A.) because the media really have nothing better to report on and B.) because he is suppose to be "the man" and the "hero" or the "inspiration" and the center of attention for this whole event. Yet when put in a situation where a fellow human being was in need, regardless, he failed.

No matter what stories they say, or even what the truth is.

He failed as a 'human being' in my eyes and many others. But so did all the other climbers aware of David's situation.

But, that is just my opinion.

[jonbuoy]

You have completely missed my point on all counts.

Sorry what was your point?

[Hitcher]

Sorry what was your point?

Crane. Denny Crane.

[jonbuoy]

Its a bit ridiculous for the media to blame the one guy who could of done the least to help out. What was he supposed to do? - chuck him over his shoulder and trot back down. The man has no legs.

[KATWYN]

Well Ingles said it - he was low on oxygen himself.

Can we make clear decisions when we lack oxygen?? possibly lack of
oxygen clouded his judgement?...(if the decision was clouded judgment that is)

Katie

[WINJA]

its too easy to sit here and critisize this guys decesion to leave a man to die , that mountain is a whole new ball game its not like helping a biker down on the side of the road cause when we stop to help a biker down we dont put ourselves in danger or risk death ourselves, from what i heard trying to shift a floppy body in those conditions is almost imposible just moving yourself is a real mission and people have died trying to rescue others in situations that werent so bad , who knows , spin the wheel take your chances that mountain is no playground

[Paul in NZ]

I can't be arsed reading all this thread. If anyone could name me one practical thing Mark I could have done that would have made the slightest difference, I may change my opinion.

But until then, every climber at that level is almost by definition a selfish bastard. Just like most sportspeople at the extreme level, but I will bet an bucket load of rubber weasels that any of them would have done whatever they could have, IF it would have done any good but the rule is, look after yourself so you don't become a burden to the team!

None of us have experience at those levels yet those I personally do know all say he (and the others) did the right thing or else you would be reading 40 people died on Mt Everest. The place is a bone yard, do you think ALL those people got lost and wandered off undiscovered? No, a lot of them were left by their parties as well.. Often before they issued their last gasp.

Saying that you would help at the beach or a stream or on the side of the road is meaningless. So would I and yes, I have, without thinking as it happens. It's not the same because at those altitudes time ticks away very quickly. To stop with the guy for more than a few moments and go outside your plan would be certain death... For what?

Carry him down?? SAR estimate that it takes 12 to 14 fit strong men to recover ONE person from a NZ bush mission in a stretcher party. How many do you think it would take up there? I doubt all 40 could have managed even if they had a stretcher. How would they make a stretcher? Not a lot of trees... Call a heliocopter? Um, who's? Could it even get up there??? Why do you think there are so many bodies up there?

To claim he should have done something because he was once rescued at the tax payers expense?? Don't you think it would have made this a billion times worse and utterly gut wrenching for him? Why assume he didn't go through hell? But really, what could he have done? You all saw the state of him afterwards, he could not even walk!

Climbing mountains is a bloody dangerous game, people who want to climb everest would literally die to do it, one did, next season, a whole lot more will, get over it and leave the poor bastard, and the rest, alone with their demons.

[Sniper]

It was wrong, they should have helped. Fuckers deserved to be ridiculed

[Maha]

Ingles also said that climbing Everest wasnt about reaching the top, but returning safe and in one piece, then and only then you can say you have been successful on the worlds highest rock. That english chap ,alas , wont ever get a chance to tell his story, along with the 170 odd other body's on the mountain, i beleive you cant parallel that situation and say, an accident on the road, Mark Igles did the right thing, and he would do the right thing if he came across a car smash.

[Sniper]

Would have been a better story saying you climbed to mountain, rescues a climber, and then got to the top

[Ixion]

,,None of us have experience at those levels yet those I personally do know all say he (and the others) did the right thing or else you would be reading 40 people died on Mt Everest. ,,.

That is true, and I certainly have no experience or qualification to judge the practicality of any assistance. But --- the man who is, I would imagine, one of the world's greatest experts on both Everest and mountaineering, Hilary, has criticised the decision. He surely is both experienced and qualified to judge what could have been done?

And if we accept Hilary's implicit dismissal of defense of impracticality, then it comes down to values and ethics. Which we are all qualified to judge.

[Maha]

Would have been a better story saying you climbed to mountain, rescues a climber, and then got to the top

You speak as tho' that '' dead man sitting '' was not in peril, where as all that past him thought other wise, or new other wise, i dont think its a place to be heroic and put ones own life in jepoardy, it aint a movie script where '' dead man sitting '' mutters....'' leave me, you go on'', then dies. A decision was made, right or wrong, a decision was made................ next ?

[justsomeguy]

I for one have and is why I commented.

I see, so you have faced such conditions.

Good, then you must understand the problems and distractions created by altitude sickness, the inability to focus properly due to the lack of oxygen, the fatigue created by having to concentrate on each and every action you do in order to conserve energy, the difficulty caused by wind and slippery conditions, the ever present dangers of slips and breaks. The limited amount of food and water available (you carry exactly what you need and not a milligram more) and lastly (but not exhaustively where these factors are concerned) the constant fear of what happens if the weather turns, remember you can’t just turn back and walk down.

So if you (and the others who think against him) do understand these things how can you not at least sympathise if not condone the decisions of Inglis??

……. but despite people thinking of me to be a fat useless cunt I am very active where outdoors are concerned.

Good one, I think you are a clever and able person with a great imagination and a rich experience of life who hides behind an elaborate façade of a fat useless cunt.