Death on Everest

[awd]

Like I said, the more people I meet, the more I like my dog..

And I'm not that keen on the dog....

But would you abandon it in a specific set of circumstances?

This topic comes up every year during 'spring summit season' on Everest and always polarises opinion, sometimes even amongst those who have been up there.

It is a sad indictment on an individual or group that they can leave someone to die alone no matter how compelling their arguement for having come to that decision. I say this while falling on the same side of the fence an Inglis, yet having been fortunate enough to have successfully helped an individual caught on a mountain. Specific situations and ones ability are the keys, hence my apparent contradictions above. I was only at about 4500m, not 8500m.

It is a pity too, or maybe it just doesn't have the media potential, but what of the other 7 people who died before this incident. Including 3 Sherpas in a single ice fall.

[Ixion]

i second the John Krakaur 'Into Thin Air' - a great read..

and Finn, wouldn't it be FROZEN urine?

i've been at 5500m in the snow, stuck on an ice shelf, waiting 3 hours for the wind to die down below 100mph so i could take another step. i can tell you - i didn't give a fucking RATS about anyone else, except my own family so very far away, during that time.

if any of you want to get a taste of what these guys are putting themselves through, do the round the mountain (ruapehu) track in the middle of winter, in the middle of a storm. put in a climb to the summit on the way.

THEN come on here and critisize.


although you probably won't be able to, cause you'll more than likely be dead.

Has not perhaps Hilary had experience of such conditions ? Although of course his cristicism is not on this forum.

[Lou Girardin]

i second the John Krakaur 'Into Thin Air' - a great read..

and Finn, wouldn't it be FROZEN urine?

i've been at 5500m in the snow, stuck on an ice shelf, waiting 3 hours for the wind to die down below 100mph so i could take another step. i can tell you - i didn't give a fucking RATS about anyone else, except my own family so very far away, during that time.

if any of you want to get a taste of what these guys are putting themselves through, do the round the mountain (ruapehu) track in the middle of winter, in the middle of a storm. put in a climb to the summit on the way.

THEN come on here and criticise




although you probably won't be able to, cause you'll more than likely be dead.

40 people, all at deaths door?
Bullshit.

[slob]

Being a fella of Nepalese origin, I feel that I ought to drop my two cents in here. I read a few of the posts in this thread and it seems that most of the folks who condemn the actions of the 40 climbers perhaps don't fully understand what the circumstances would have been. The way I see it is as follows:

Imagine dangling on a fraying rope over a 80m cliff with another person hanging on to the rope beneath you. If you try and help the fellow below you, the rope (i.e. the window of opportunity for getting down the mountain) will most likely break and both of you will perish. What would you do then?

Of course I don't agree with the idea of completely ignoring the stricken climber and callously finishing one's goal of reaching the summit. On the other hand, none of us really know what we would have done unless we have experienced the same situation ourselves - remember self-preservation is the most basic of all our instincts and on the mountain, all decisions can come down to that. Also, I believe in mountaineering, the standard policy for a climber is to ensure that they themselves are safe before calling for help or attempting to help someone themselves.

Lastly, I'd like to say that I'm quite disappointed in the Nepalese "government's" lack of control of the number of people going up what is now known as the "highest rubbish dump in the world". It just doesn't seem right to allow amateurs to risk the lives of others just because they can pay for it.

[SwanTiger]

if any of you want to get a taste of what these guys are putting themselves through, do the round the mountain (ruapehu) track in the middle of winter, in the middle of a storm. put in a climb to the summit on the way.

THEN come on here and critisize.

Really? Would you like to do it with me this winter Marty?

If you really want to know what it is like at 8,000 odd meters, stay up for 24 hours and then breath into a paper bag for a few minutes while sitting in your freezer.

No need to go on a Marty's Tour of Mt. Ruapehu 'beats fists on chest' Trek.

[Maha]

Well, im flying to Dunedin 2morro morning, so i should get a pretty good idea of what is like up there on the high rocks......ho ho ho ho ho ho.....
Failing that i will get the pilot to depressurize the cabin and if anything goes wrong at least i can rely on 50% of the people that posted on this thread to come and help me.........

[Jonty]

I work with Mark's daughter and I can tell you all that I doubt anyone here has ever experience what it is like to be at 8500m looking at the prospect of attempting to bring a man down from the altitude (whether it be a party of fourty or one). In my mind Mark is not the sort of person that would make these decisions (or have these decision made for him) lightly. I think kiwi's need to give the guy a break until people know all of the facts.

People die on mountains, above 8000 meters (quoting a rather trajic movie) you are already dead. Mr Sharp new the risks and I doubt even in his mind he would have wanted Mark's party to risk their lives to save him. Don't you think Mark would have appreciated the headline "double amputee calls off acent to save the life of a fellow climber"? In my mind if it were possible to save him he would have done it.

J

[Squeak the Rat]

if any of you want to get a taste of what these guys are putting themselves through, do the round the mountain (ruapehu) track in the middle of winter, in the middle of a storm. put in a climb to the summit on the way.
THEN come on here and critisize.

Then multiply it by 10. The lack of oxygen makes things a trifle hard. So much that a small deviation from plan can mean death. Or loss of everything you've worked hard for for five years.

Some people are very under-prepared to do Everest. It's hard enough walking around at base camp level due to the oxygen, let alone climbing difficult terrain further up. Why should others suffer because of peoples stupidity or mistakes.

Rightly or wrongly, people know the rules on everest. Including the climber who decided to do it SOLO (ie. with no support team) and with no oxygen. He knew the risk he was taking - and he knew the consequences. No doubt at all.

I don't think I'm qualified to judge their actions, and I've spent time at 5,500 [Edit:] metres. I can certainly understand it though.

[Maha]

MacGiver would have got him down, all he would have needed was duc tape, blu tac and some glad wrap, ok, fat chance of glad wrap at that altitude but i understand that there alot of rubbish up there so he would have found something...

[Pixie]

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned the obvious, on any serious mountain summit attempt there is ONE person who decides what happens. The climb leader, once they leave the base camp is the ONLY person who makes the decisions that the team must abide by. Any other method leads to chaos and death, usually on a massive scale.
The climb leader and members gave what assistance they could, realised that anything further would endanger the entire team, then made the only proper decision to make. Complete his task, keeping the best interests of his team first.
I feel great sadness for Mr Sharps family, but even they do not place any blame on the other climbers. Think about that.
I may be slammed for my opinion but I believe they made the right decision and ultimately I would probably choose the same way. (god forbid I should ever have to)
Dont be too quick to judge on this one people.

I vas only followink orders

[Pixie]

Actually no, the first guy was Sherpa Tensing Norgay. Now reasonbly common knowledge I think.

Doesn't count if he's not a white man

[Pixie]

Actually no, the first guy was Sherpa Tensing Norgay. Now reasonbly common knowledge I think.

Doesn't count if he's not a white man or an English man for that matter.

Funny we don't get taught about the fact that the chinese mapped all the major land masses hundreds of years before the europeans,in ships that made the european ships look like canoes

[Paul in NZ]

But would you abandon it in a specific set of circumstances?
.

Ah.. But in there lies the rub....

The circumstances change along with the capacity of the other party to render aid. It's a sliding scale of cause and effect.

Would I give my life knowingly (ie 100% you are gunna die AND time to think it through) to save my dog? Nope!

Would I step into a dog fight to save her and risk some harm and maybe (like 0.01% death) yes...

Why? Because I also have a wife and 3 kids plus 2 grandkids that still require me to be here for them...

MI is coping the blame and yet he was just ONE disabled member of a party. There were others there that did what they could. We don't know what happened, maybe the Sherpas decided nothing could be done and then moved the party on, MI was not leading the group.

Where does this stop? Surgeons earn huge salaries and yet people die on waiting lists. Should they do free operations in their weekends to prevent this? They know damn well people that can't afford their services privately will in all likelyhood die? Do THEY do anything? Nope....

People drive drunk. That prize cunt that ran away from the accident that he caused the other day did nothing to help. Yet while he is going to get prosecuted he is not crucified in public.

Could it be that we want our heroes to be dead ones because we can't handle the fact that the world is not a perfect boys own annual and the good guys are not always 100% good...

[Pixie]

I think if Hemmingway was alive today,he would have to revise his statement about what's a sport.
"there are only three sports,mountain climbing,bullfighting and motorsport,all the rest are just games."

I think mountain climbing is now wanking for the rich.

[jonbuoy]

Doesn't count if he's not a white man or an English man for that matter.

Funny we don't get taught about the fact that the chinese mapped all the major land masses hundreds of years before the europeans,in ships that made the european ships look like canoes

Staggering considering there general navigational skills on the roads.