A question for Spudchucka

[pete376403]

Spud, I was on the Hutt Road on Friday, and noted a police operation in progress - one guy with a laser hiding in the bushes, a number of HP cars and a bike down the road ticketing. The question is, if this went to court, who is the prosecution witness - the ticket writer or the laser operator. If the ticket writer, isn't his evidence hearsay? ("I was told by xxx that this car was speeding, etc") as he has never seen the laser readout.
Or can police write out tickets on behalf of others?

If one of these things ever went as far as a jury trial it should be possible for a defence lawyer to get the charge dismissed - reasonable doubt and so on. Where is the evidence that could be presented to the court?

[matthewt]

Spud, I was on the Hutt Road on Friday, and noted a police operation in progress - one guy with a laser hiding in the bushes, a number of HP cars and a bike down the road ticketing. The question is, if this went to court, who is the prosecution witness - the ticket writer or the laser operator. If the ticket writer, isn't his evidence hearsay? ("I was told by xxx that this car was speeding, etc") as he has never seen the laser readout.
Or can police write out tickets on behalf of others?

If one of these things ever went as far as a jury trial it should be possible for a defence lawyer to get the charge dismissed - reasonable doubt and so on. Where is the evidence that could be presented to the court?

I've been done like this before. Clocked by guy with a laser in a parked car and then chased by a cop on a bike. I asked to see the read-out and he said it would of been gone by now and anyway they didn't have to show it to me.

[dangerous]

I've been done like this before. Clocked by guy with a laser in a parked car and then chased by a cop on a bike. I asked to see the read-out and he said it would of been gone by now and anyway they didn't have to show it to me.

So true......... the other day I watched from work a little sting going down, one cop up a private drive with a laser and radio telephone, shoting then radioing ahead the results. Now what if he got somthing wrong? nowdays you cant fight the law its there word against yours.

As they were parked outside work when setting up I counted 8 bods and 6 cars....... shit what a lot of wages to pay for one speed trap

[k14]

So true......... the other day I watched from work a little sting going down, one cop up a private drive with a laser and radio telephone, shoting then radioing ahead the results. Now what if he got somthing wrong? nowdays you cant fight the law its there word against yours.

As they were parked outside work when setting up I counted 8 bods and 6 cars....... shit what a lot of wages to pay for one speed trap

I wouldn't worry, I'm sure they made more than enough to pay the wages and the friday afternoon drinks

[Skyryder]

Spud, I was on the Hutt Road on Friday, and noted a police operation in progress - one guy with a laser hiding in the bushes, a number of HP cars and a bike down the road ticketing. The question is, if this went to court, who is the prosecution witness - the ticket writer or the laser operator. If the ticket writer, isn't his evidence hearsay? ("I was told by xxx that this car was speeding, etc") as he has never seen the laser readout.
Or can police write out tickets on behalf of others?

If one of these things ever went as far as a jury trial it should be possible for a defence lawyer to get the charge dismissed - reasonable doubt and so on. Where is the evidence that could be presented to the court?

The court would take the officers word on the grounds that he/she would have no reason to lie whereas the court would hold the view that you do, so as to save yourself from a conviction and a court imposed fine. You would need to raise issues about the officers integrity for a defence or proove that the equipment was defective and gave an innaccurate readout. If there was a history of harrassment from the ticketing officer or the radar shooter that too would be useful for a defence.

Skyryder

[k14]

What about the quota system? Wouldn't that be a reason to lie? So that they don't have to work overtime to reach their quota??

[Skyryder]

What about the quota system? Wouldn't that be a reason to lie? So that they don't have to work overtime to reach their quota??

No it would not. You would have to supply evidence that if the officer did not reach his quota disciplinary action would be taken against the officer. Not very likely. Even if you could proove that the officer was operating to a quota the Police have stats that would show that x number of offences occur in x number of days hours, whatever. This is where the quota figures would come from if indeed they exist or you could proove that they exist. The simple fact K14 is, if comes to your word against a Police Officer's then the court, in the absent of conflicting evidence, will give more creedence to the Officer than to yourself on the grounds previously stated.

Skyryder

[Ghost Lemur]

So much for innocent until proven guilty aye. This looks very much like a case of guilty as soon as a cop decides you are. There is nothing stopping them from abusing this power (I'm not saying they do), and there seems to be a lacking in safety measures.

[DEATH_INC.]

So much for innocent until proven guilty aye. This looks very much like a case of guilty as soon as a cop decides you are. There is nothing stopping them from abusing this power (I'm not saying they do), and there seems to be a lacking in safety measures.

I've been done (and lost my licence) by a who made up a bullshit story.The judge simply said 'he's an officer with X years experience' and that was good enough for him.Unless you have witnesses to help you they will win.
JUSTICE system?NOT!!!

The real annoying thing is he could have prolly got me legally if he'd followed me a bit longer....

[scumdog]

I've been done (and lost my licence) by a who made up a bullshit story.The judge simply said 'he's an officer with X years experience' and that was good enough for him.Unless you have witnesses to help you they will win.
JUSTICE system?NOT!!!

The real annoying thing is he could have prolly got me legally if he'd followed me a bit longer....

If that story is true Death inc then that sucks on at least two counts (1) it's immoral and unethical/illegal and (2) it's going to make the next cops job more difficult when he has to speak to you, regardless of how decent he actually is.
Sorry to hear your story

[DEATH_INC.]

If that story is true Death inc then that sucks on at least two counts (1) it's immoral and unethical/illegal and (2) it's going to make the next cops job more difficult when he has to speak to you, regardless of how decent he actually is.
Sorry to hear your story

Yeah it's true,it was about 4 yrs ago now but I won't forget it.I take each officer as I meet them though,I've met some decent one's since,but I'm afraid it has (also a few other things)killed my faith in the cops and the justice system.....
This is also a large part of the reason I often don't stop anymore......

[riffer]

SOP for the Welly police, unfortunately Pete.

It's happened to me - 35 demerits and $170, iirc.

See http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=2056 for more.

[wkid_one]

Be warned - they also do this on Petone Esplanade - the park in the Power Building on the left hand side heading to the motorway and laser people over the bushes then politely ask you to pull over.

Friday's one was a monster effort tho - good on them.....I counted 6 people pulled over on my way out of town and 5 news ones on my way back in to town....

Interestly enuf - I 'may have' blazed past them all while talking on my cellphone (my hands free kit wasn't working) - which I would consider to be a worse offence than - speeding? (should I have been talking on it of course

[spudchucka]

Spud, I was on the Hutt Road on Friday, and noted a police operation in progress - one guy with a laser hiding in the bushes, a number of HP cars and a bike down the road ticketing. The question is, if this went to court, who is the prosecution witness - the ticket writer or the laser operator. If the ticket writer, isn't his evidence hearsay? ("I was told by xxx that this car was speeding, etc") as he has never seen the laser readout.
Or can police write out tickets on behalf of others?

If one of these things ever went as far as a jury trial it should be possible for a defence lawyer to get the charge dismissed - reasonable doubt and so on. Where is the evidence that could be presented to the court?

The evidence that would convict the speeder in that instance is the evidence provided by the operator of the laser. The cop who wrote the ticket is just taking care of the administrative portion of the infringement notice. If it went to Court then the tapes from the communication centre would have to be disclosed. This would have recoreded the radio transmission stating the description / registration number of the vehicle and its speed. The ticket writer would have to be called to Court as well as he would be the person to ID the driver, the laser operator could not reasonably do that.

Could you argue that this was hearsay? Possibly but there are times when hearsay evidence is admissable. I don't think this would be a strong defence but then I'm not a lawyer - they tend to think somewhat differently.

[spudchucka]

What about the quota system? Wouldn't that be a reason to lie? So that they don't have to work overtime to reach their quota??

No. If a cop was found to be lying in Court he would undoubtedly be charged and his career would be toast. Even if he managed to salvage his career his credability would be shot. Why would anyone put their career on the line for a poxy traffic ticket?