Challenge to Transit re mway bus lanes...

[twinkle]

good idea, if they get enough emails maybe they will change their mind? worth a try.

[Felicks]

Unfortunately, common sense isn't as common as we all think. IMHO the supposed guru's who dream up legislation like this (and no doubt are paid the big bucks for it), fail to come to grips with practicality.

Yes it would be great if bikes could use those lanes but I guess it would only take one or two idiots travelling at warp factor 9 overtaking cages 'on the inside' causing complaints to bring the whole thing into disrepute should it be allowed.

I reckon it won't happen - I hope I'm wrong. (Even though we don't have any real motorways down here - yet....)

Hell on our "southern expressway" you are lucky if you can get up to 80km/h!! The only place in Christchurch city that you are allowed to travel at 100k and hardly anyone takes the opportunity to clear the crap out of their city bound engines....!! Pisses me off.

[Lou Girardin]

Yes it would be great if bikes could use those lanes but I guess it would only take one or two idiots travelling at warp factor 9 overtaking cages 'on the inside' causing complaints to bring the whole thing into disrepute should it be allowed.

.

From what I've seen, the buses are the biggest danger using those lanes.
My car died on the north M/way a few years ago, I moved as far off the shoulder onto the grass as I could without getting bogged and a bus still passed within a metre at around 80 km/h.
And why are they allowed to use the lanes with impunity well after the 9.30 cut off time?
If someone is unfortunate to break down and pull off the motorway in front of one of these half-wits, he'll end up flatter than Wile E Coyote.

[XP@]

Let me see...

Use a more or less empty emergency / bus lane?
or take your chances in the semi-legal lane 1b or 2b, where the other occupants ate in flagrent disregard for the Keep left, Indicate 3 seconds before moving and keep 2 seconds back.

TransitNZ's job is not roads it is risk mitigation (eg reduce the speed, reduce the risk) then why are they being so stupid here?

[Lou Girardin]

Because all the excuses are a cover for;
"If I can't do it, they can't either".

[Skyryder]

If these bus drivers are as bad as some say..........why would anyone want to be in the same lane. Been here before now I'm going away. See Mini Me's sig. He knows

Skyryder

[Swoop]

The regulations state that motorcyclists can use bus lanes unless specifically excluded by signage. It is my understanding that the motorway bus lanes no specifically exclude motorbikes, so it is legal to use them despite anything Transit may say.

If you want an excellent example of "specifically excluded" please look at the on-ramps to the motorways. There you will find a sign of a person walking, with a barred circle over the top, AND letters underneath stating "No pedestrians permitted on motorways" (or words to that effect).

This is being "specifically excluded".

Bus lanes do not contain signage "specifically excluding" motorbikes.

[XP@]

If you want an excellent example of "specifically excluded" please look at the on-ramps to the motorways. There you will find a sign of a person walking, with a barred circle over the top, AND letters underneath stating "No pedestrians permitted on motorways" (or words to that effect).

This is being "specifically excluded".

Bus lanes do not contain signage "specifically excluding" motorbikes.

The only way to sort this in court. Where the letter of the law can be tested.
If the law comes down in our favour then we will be paying for quite a few signs saying "except cycles and motorcycles".

[Bevel]

I'm having an email battle with Transit over bus lane usage. Please help out and see if we can change that stupid regulation. Here is the corespondence to date.

6/6/06
I travel via motorcycle during peak hour on SH1 in Auckland from Esmonde Rd over the Harbour Bridge.

I have heard that Transit does not allow motorcycles to use the Bus lane because it is considered too dangerous.

I have to ask have the people who made this decision ever had to ride a motorcycle between two rows of impatient cars that merge at random and are only inches from their bike?

As an experience motorcyclist with over 20 years of riding experience I can assure you that traveling in the bus lane is far safer. When in a bus lane I can see a bus coming from miles away and I am in a position to avoid it. He can also see me.

Car drivers are not expecting motorcycles to zip between the lanes and are not looking for them. Even if a driver was to indicate a motorcyclist may not be able to see their indicators because of the close proximity of other vehicle masking their indicators. Some drivers actually resent motorcyclist squeezing past them and go out of their way to hamper their progress as has happened to me on numerous occasions.

Please reconsider the existing ruling as it currently does not make sense to put motorcyclist in harms way. I promise that I will hamper the progress of any buses on my Italian sports bike.

Thank you


19/6/06
Dear ****

Thank you for your message to Transit New Zealand’s (Transit’s) website about motorcyclists using motorway bus lanes.

The shoulders on Auckland’s motorways are primarily emergency stopping areas and are not constructed as running lanes. They are at a lower level than the main carriageway and not surfaced with the same material.

Restricting the use of clearly defined sections of the shoulder to timetabled bus services at specified peak times on weekdays - only when the motorway is congested - means Transit can achieve some control over driver behaviour. Three licensed bus operators currently use the shoulder lanes and advice and direction on shoulder lane use forms part of the training programme for bus drivers. If inappropriate driver behaviour is observed, it is addressed through the bus operators, ensuring that both usage and speed are managed safely.

If vehicles in general were to use the shoulder as a normal running lane (at normal speeds) there would be safety issues with vehicles moving on and off the shoulder with the different carriageway heights and different levels of skid resistance. The stability of motorcyclists would be of particular concern when moving to or from the shoulder.

If motorcyclists were permitted to ride on the shoulders the number of lane changes would be greater than normal because the main carriageway shoulders end at on and off-ramps and motorcyclists would need to change lanes (merge back into the main traffic flow) frequently. The speed differential between the congested main motorway lanes and motorcycles on the shoulder would be problematic and a real safety concern. Unfortunately, for these reasons, it is not currently practical or safe for motorcyclists to ride on the motorway shoulders.

Transit does not have any plans to review its policy on the controlled use of the motorway emergency stopping shoulders in the short term. However, if Transit were to revisit this policy it would consult with representative interest groups, rather than individual users. That would include bus operators, the NZ Automobile Association and a representative national motorcyclist’s association.

I trust that this clarifies the issues raised in your email.

Thank you for your enquiry.

Yours sincerely

Warwick Mason

Warwick Mason
Traffic Engineer
Transit New Zealand
Ph 368.2026

19/6/06
Dear Mr Mason
Thank you for you replying to my email and thank you for your concern about motorcycle safety.
Unfortunately I do not agree with you that the bus lane hazards you identified with their different road levels and lane changing requirements are significant issues.
Motorcyclist have to constantly change lanes to maneuver through crawling rush hour traffic. Using bus lanes will actually reduce that hazard. Motorcycles can also adjust their speed up or down to match merging traffic faster than any other vehicle on the road.
The different surfaces and heights is unfortunate but if a motorcyclist cannot handle them then he shouldn't be riding a bike. After all we encounter them all the time with roadwork's. As an aside I have just returned from Melbourne where there are thousands of motorcycles and hundreds of miles of tram tracks. If different road surfaces where such an issue Melbourne would have to either ban motorcycles or trams altogether.
Another anomaly with banning motorcyclist from Transit NZ roads is that we are allowed to use bus lanes controlled by local councils in urban areas. These bus lane have the added hazards of driveways, cyclist and pedestrian to deal with yet are deemed safer.
As an experience motorcyclist with over 20 years in the saddle I can assure you that I am much safer in a bus lane than sandwiched between unsuspecting cars and trucks. I invite you to join me for a ride across Auckland Harbour Bridge one morning to experience first hand the reality of the situation from a motorcyclist perspective.
Yours sincerely
****

[Jantar]

Good one. I'm looking forward to his next reply. And I hope he takes you up on your offer of a ride.

[Lou Girardin]

I would have also mentioned that buses use the lanes outside the allowed hours with no perceivable enforcement.
Their speeds and aggressive merging presents a danger to other motorway traffic, again without enforcement.

[Devil]

This part is hilarious:

If vehicles in general were to use the shoulder as a normal running lane (at normal speeds) there would be safety issues with vehicles moving on and off the shoulder with the different carriageway heights and different levels of skid resistance.

Has this guy seen the speed the buses travel along these lanes, in the wet???
I've been on a bus when its tried to stop in a hurry even from 50km/h in the wet and it makes you scared to be near them. Rear ended a car at great pace.

Then are his comments on a bike having to merge back in with the traffic. Errr wait, what about the buses having to do this too at 10 times the length of a motorcyle...

[twinkle]

If vehicles in general were to use the shoulder as a normal running lane (at normal speeds) there would be safety issues with vehicles moving on and off the shoulder with the different carriageway heights and different levels of skid resistance. The stability of motorcyclists would be of particular concern when moving to or from the shoulder.

at normal speeds is only about 60ks in rush hour.
piece of cake compared to manholes, potholes, painted lines, gravel, oil etc that we negotiate every day.


I reckon the ideal motorbike lane during rush hour is that bit of space on the right hand side by the concrete barrier. No off/on ramps, no busses and is often sealed to the same height as the road wonder if they'd let us use it?

[Magua]

Not being allowed to use the emergency lane busways is annoying, but what gets me is that we wont be allowed on the new northern busway, though I understand cars with a certain number of passengers will be able to?

[twinkle]

really? no way...

we should get vocal about this now while they are still making it.

would consult with representative interest groups, rather than individual users. That would include bus operators, the NZ Automobile Association and a representative national motorcyclist’s association.

I guess that would be BRONZ?