Could the lack of discipline be the problem?

**scumdog** · 15th June 2006, 21:46

Originally Posted by terbang

Well for those with some lateral thought it certainly is. First, as a 5th generation NZer who has also lived in other countries I agree there has been a slip in NZ. I notice that this thread is started with the opening statement
by someone who has has left a country that is in the headlines all the time and is handing out advice to us Kiwis. Hang on this is NZ and not back home so I suspect it will be different. Like the whinging poms of the past we dont need it either from Zimbabwe or anywhere else. Fit in and contribute to our country as a New Zealander or(sex and travel) there is always the homeland that needs you back.

Hmmm, if somebody fell off their bike and could see you were doing the same thing they did that caused them to fall of, - and they told you to stop doing it would you say "Piss off, you fell of your bike, what the hell do YOU know about bike riding??

A bit simplistic but you see where I'm coming from eh?

**Brian d marge** · 15th June 2006, 21:47

it was very kind of the last person to leave NZ to switch the lights off .

The lights were still on down south I noticed ..must be a few stragglers

Stephen

**terbang** · 15th June 2006, 21:54

And simplisticly I could leave my totally destroyed smoking wreck of a bike that I just binned on the side of the road and tell those that have offered me a lift in their car that they are wrong because they dont drive it like I did my bike..

I have lived in 5 different countries and have citizenship in 2 and they all have their ups and downs but one thing you learn is to breathe through your nose as there are generations of issues there that you will never really come to grips with and handing out advice based on the motherland is not allways relevant and appreciated.

**The Stranger:Me** · 16th June 2006, 08:54

Originally Posted by slowpoke

Yup, when it comes to parenting just 'cos ya CAN have kids doesn't mean ya SHOULD...and just 'cos ya have doesn't mean you're any bloody good.

Shame you don't need a brain to create the monster.
You know there is no hope when you see the kids at age 5 (or less) are more intelligent than the parents.
Look around, you see it a lot actually.

**placidfemme** · 16th June 2006, 09:37

Originally Posted by scumdog

MAKE them more accountable, discipline them more -LOTS more!
make them fear SOMETHING (fear of losing a cell-phone does NOT count!)

Thats right.

Also someone (hXc I think) mentioned that parents buy the alcohol for thier kids (or drugs) and use them with the kids... well I can understand a parent rather wanting thier child to do someone like that in front of them instead of in secret at some teen party that turns into drunken, drugged up night out... but doesn't that just incourage the later by giving them a taste.. and the attitude with thier friends of "well my mom and dad let me smoke pot around (or with) them". What message does that send across?

Sam's brother and his girlfriend get totally trashed with the girlfriends parents, she is only 15, and can drink me under the table on any given day...

**Big Dave** · 16th June 2006, 09:40

Originally Posted by placidfemme

Zimbabwe... or Rhodesia... depends on how old you are lol

And just look at how well it's doing.

**placidfemme** · 16th June 2006, 09:44

Originally Posted by Big Dave

And just look at how well it's doing.

Thats got nothing to do with this conversation. Zimbabwes situation is due to the government being corrupt, the government currently in power were raised in mud huts in the bush (and thats the truth), this is about manners and respect and why kids are turning out the way they are. (oh and as well... those young african kids raised in mud huts with both parents dying of aids and other diseases, still have more respect and family tradition then your average NZ kid... so third world yes... but manner-wise... way ahead)

If you wanna turn this into a discussion about corrupt countries and governments, and start a race war be my guest to start another thread, don't start it in here.

**Paul in NZ** · 16th June 2006, 09:48

Originally Posted by placidfemme

If you wanna turn this into a discussion about corrupt countries and governments, and start a race war be my guest to start another thread, don't start it in here.

Absolutely - this thread is about manners and respect......

**Big Dave** · 16th June 2006, 09:54

Has anyone actually DONE anything to work for their youth and community - rather than sit around bitching about it.

Go and put in some time at the Y, the youth club, community centre, or do 'something' other than moan - you probably can make a big difference. I know I did.

**Big Dave** · 16th June 2006, 09:58

Originally Posted by placidfemme

Thats got nothing to do with this conversation.

I reckon it does. Nothing to do with race - relevant Socio-ecomomic influences were my point.

**James Deuce** · 16th June 2006, 09:59

Originally Posted by placidfemme

..... still have more respect and family tradition then your average NZ kid... so third world yes... but manner-wise... way ahead)

Define average. You're very good at sweeping generalisations about things you know very little about, and for a thread about respect and manners, it is a bit rich to be openly displaying an attitude that is disrespectful to both "average" parents and "average" kids.

It appears that your basic premise is that all NZ kids and all NZ parents are ill-mannered louts. I am getting very tired of the constant "blaming" of NZ parents for everything "bad" about NZ. Parents are consistently hammered for not spending enought time with their kids, for NOT having BOTH parents employed, for not encouraging their kids to exercise more, for allowing them to go to the park and play unsupervised, for not giving them more independence, for not making sure their kids attend school, for not saving for their own retirement and their kid's university education, for demanding a consistent level of performance from schools only to be told that teachers don;t like interfering parents - O, but you have to give up your weekends to fundraise to keep the school open, blah, blah, blah.

If you don't have kids, shut up about parenting issues. You're clueless. That includes you Helen Clark.

**SARGE** · 16th June 2006, 10:01

Originally Posted by placidfemme

Thats right.

Also someone (hXc I think) mentioned that parents buy the alcohol for thier kids (or drugs) and use them with the kids... well I can understand a parent rather wanting thier child to do someone like that in front of them instead of in secret at some teen party that turns into drunken, drugged up night out... but doesn't that just incourage the later by giving them a taste.. and the attitude with thier friends of "well my mom and dad let me smoke pot around (or with) them". What message does that send across?

when i was growing up.. we had a full bar in the basement ... beer on tap.. wine.. liquor ..all that ..i was told that if i wanted a beer with dinner, or while dad and i were working on a car or in the yard.. help myself... it was not made 'taboo' .. there was no mystery about it..my first beer was at 5 years old ( i was in Germany for 6 months with mom..)

i think thats the reason im not an alchoholic to this day..

**carver** · 16th June 2006, 10:06

if the govt stopped trying to set our moral standard, telling us they know best.
if we took responsibility for our actions, and tried to rely less on the govt?
if we binned this "feel good" pc shite, and called/saw/acted on things as they really are?
if the pm took responsibility for his/her/its actions?
if we could have a small govt?
would these things help.
i belive in small govt-libertarian!

**placidfemme** · 16th June 2006, 10:10

Originally Posted by SARGE

when i was growing up.. we had a full bar in the basement ... beer on tap.. wine.. liquor ..all that ..i was told that if i wanted a beer with dinner, or while dad and i were working on a car or in the yard.. help myself... it was not made 'taboo' .. there was no mystery about it..

i think thats the reason im not an alchoholic to this day..

Did he let you get totally wasted though? The odd drink here and there to show "you" that he is giving you the lee-way (sp) to be trusted, giving you that "inch" so to speak is not a problem. I'm talking in the sense of parents sitting there and letting thier kid get so drunk they get sick at the end of the night and end up with a major hang-over the next day... and worse the kid thinks "this is just so cool".

I believe that in todays world so much is available, and with peer pressure one thing leads to the next, alcohol then drugs (or sex then drugs). Sure not every kid is going to go down that path, I know a lot of NZ teens that don't and never have taken drugs... If a kid is drinking (to the point of getting drunk on a regular basis) at 14 or 15, by 16 chances are they've already had sex (unprotected most likely), by 17 they are into drugs, and by the time they are 19 and ready to really start living thier life with all the great oppertunitys a country like NZ has to offer (education, travel etc) they are already trapped. They have already experienced most of lifes little pleasures, the mystery and excitment in life is now small and dim... because the little pleasures are gone thats when the next generations "future" really starts to go down hill... life is too hard... working isn't fun... etc

**carver** · 16th June 2006, 10:10

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Has anyone actually DONE anything to work for their youth and community - rather than sit around bitching about it.

Go and put in some time at the Y, the youth club, community centre, or do 'something' other than moan - you probably can make a big difference. I know I did.

im on the Hamilton City Youth Council

and i help out with a youth-group too, hi school kids

grass roots is where the grass grows, its good to get in there, i did it because i aint one to bitch.
its real good once you get in to it.