Could the lack of discipline be the problem?

[Winston001]

I am getting very tired of the constant "blaming" of NZ parents for everything "bad" about NZ. Parents are consistently hammered for not spending enought time with their kids, for NOT having BOTH parents employed, for not encouraging their kids to exercise more, for allowing them to go to the park and play unsupervised, for not giving them more independence, for not making sure their kids attend school, for not saving for their own retirement and their kid's university education, for demanding a consistent level of performance from schools only to be told that teachers don;t like interfering parents - O, but you have to give up your weekends to fundraise to keep the school open, blah, blah, blah.

If you don't have kids, shut up about parenting issues. You're clueless. That includes you Helen Clark.

As a parent I share your frustration. However I don't see such discussions as "blaming" the parents.

Rather it is a recognition that the primary responsibility for a child lies with their parents. Not school teachers, social workers, wardens, the police, or even Helen Clark. It's the parents.

That message needs to be repeated loud and clear. For whatever reason, some parents just ignore their kids or throw fancy toys at them.

The most serious responsibility a human being takes on is having and raising a child. Yet it is also the task many of us are completely unprepared for. I'm at the stage where I'd support compulsory parenting education.

[Lou Girardin]

Maybe you were a well behaved one.

I don't know about that. But we were scared of cops and didn't back chat adults unless we had an escape route.
And there's no way we would have planned to ambush a pizza delivery boy, even if we had had pizzas. (Well our family did, they were home made and delicious. Kiwi friends ddidn't have a clue what they were)

[MSTRS:Me]

In every generation the old fogies are convinced that the youth of their day are a bad lot......
So lamented Hesiod in the 8th century BC.

Except that the old fogies now are correct. Teens have always been somewhat disrespectful etc, but now they have no fear of their elders. That makes a very big difference....

[Str8 Jacket]

Jeepers I still remember the first time I told my mother to "go to hell", I got the hiding of a life time! Never did that again.
I was flatting when I was 15 yrs old and the novelty of being able to do what I wanted wore of really fast when I realised that there was noone there to save my bacon!

[oldrider]

As a parent I share your frustration. However I don't see such discussions as "blaming" the parents.

Rather it is a recognition that the primary responsibility for a child lies with their parents. Not school teachers, social workers, wardens, the police, or even Helen Clark. It's the parents.

That message needs to be repeated loud and clear. For whatever reason, some parents just ignore their kids or throw fancy toys at them.

The most serious responsibility a human being takes on is having and raising a child. Yet it is also the task many of us are completely unprepared for. I'm at the stage where I'd support compulsory parenting education.

The Socialist State believes the child belongs to it. (Current NZ government)
They make laws and rules that usurp the parental authority and disenfranchise the parents of any element of control or influence.
By the time the parents realise their children have been stolen from them it is too late, the next generation is evolving and the beat goes on.
Every generation thinks the new youth are worse than the last and the shame of it is, they are in so many cases, right.
I do not see anything in the current political alternatives being offered that will change the situation either.
God save us from our selves, we get the governments that we deserve.

[The_Dover]

So they obvious solution is to blow up the beehive?

[Kendog]

when i was growing up.. we had a full bar in the basement ... beer on tap.. wine.. liquor ..all that ..i was told that if i wanted a beer with dinner, or while dad and i were working on a car or in the yard.. help myself... it was not made 'taboo' .. there was no mystery about it..my first beer was at 5 years old ( i was in Germany for 6 months with mom..)

i think thats the reason im not an alchoholic to this day..

Have to agree. (Most) Teenagers live to rebell, so if you tell them they can't drink, do drugs, have sex and whatever else, they will sneak about and do it twice as hard. Educate them, give them advice and then let them make a few of their own decisions and mistakes, that's how you learn.
As a teenager I was given as much freedom as I wanted as long as I didn't fall behind in school work. Was put on the pill at 16, mum and dad bought booze for me to take to partys and was allowed to have partys and boyfriends at home anytime. I always let them know where I was going, when I'd be home, who I was with because they trusted me to make the right decisions and to be honest with them. They gave me enough rope to hang myself, but I never did because I didn't want to let them down.
Unlike many of my friends who had to be home by 10pm, and were told not to drink or screw. Those were the ones that would get so pissed they couldn't walk, would sneak out of windows at night and disappear for days and screw anything that moved (well sort of).
Anyway, that's my opinion, worked for me (I think ) Thanks mum and dad.
Mrs KD.

[Big Dave]

So they obvious solution is to blow up the beehive?

Why do you think we let ixion hang around?

[The_Dover]

Why do you think we let ixion hang around?

Or we could get some of the young reprobates to do it for us???

Just tell them that there's shit loads of Pee and weeeed inside.

[Kendog]

As a parent I share your frustration. However I don't see such discussions as "blaming" the parents.

Rather it is a recognition that the primary responsibility for a child lies with their parents. Not school teachers, social workers, wardens, the police, or even Helen Clark. It's the parents.

That message needs to be repeated loud and clear. For whatever reason, some parents just ignore their kids or throw fancy toys at them.

The most serious responsibility a human being takes on is having and raising a child. Yet it is also the task many of us are completely unprepared for. I'm at the stage where I'd support compulsory parenting education.

I'm with you on that.
I'm a nanny, and to look after other peoples kids I had to do a two month parenting class, have police checks done, have a current first aid certificate and generally show that I am a good and responsible human being. But if I wanted to have kids of my own, I just need to get up the duff and have them. What is with that. Sometimes I think I might have more idea about how to raise kids than a lot of parents out there with a mini tribe. And yep, parents do chuck expensive toys at kids so they don't have to spend time with them and because they feel guilty about their lack of parenting (not saying they don't care for the little critters, just don't know how to spend time instead of money on them).
Mrs KD.

[James Deuce]

As a parent I share your frustration. However I don't see such discussions as "blaming" the parents.

Rather it is a recognition that the primary responsibility for a child lies with their parents. Not school teachers, social workers, wardens, the police, or even Helen Clark. It's the parents.

That message needs to be repeated loud and clear. For whatever reason, some parents just ignore their kids or throw fancy toys at them.

The most serious responsibility a human being takes on is having and raising a child. Yet it is also the task many of us are completely unprepared for. I'm at the stage where I'd support compulsory parenting education.

So a small percentage of parents absolutely suck at parenting, unlike the vast majority who only suck sometimes?

Once again, I'm tired of seeing a minority held up as representative of parenting in general. All those other people you talk about ARE responsible for raising your kids. You can't do it alone. It is your responsibility in fact to make sure that they are capable of relating to society in general and you can't do that by isolating your kids and insisting that no one else they come in contact with has any input into the person they become. That is why New Zealanders prefer to buy a ticket on Air New Zealand to get to Australia instead of building hteir own damn plane.

I don't understand why it is that 1 parent in 100 makes a public and heinous criminal mistake, so therefore parenting in general must be examined closely. Or a mid-teens kid does something completely at odds with their upbringing so the parents are completely to blame, despite it being the one time little Johnny ever did anything dumb. Of course we're all perfect and never did anything dumb as teenagers, like getting raging drunk and then vomiting all over your (now ex) girlfriend at a school ball, or putting the car in 4th instead of reverse and gentling nudging the car in front instead of reversing out of the park the first time you are allowed out in the car by yourself. Or completely NOT THINKING and chucking a desk out of a window at school and breaking someone's arm. No we're all perfect. And it was all our parent's fault anyway because they did a shit job of raising us.

It's the same mindset that sees a bloke wheelying down the motorway so ALL motorcyclists are temporary New Zealanders.

No one celebrates anything that people achieve anymore, especially when it comes to a community based activity like parenting.

[Big Dave]

It's the same mindset that sees a bloke wheelying down the motorway so ALL motorcyclists are temporary New Zealanders.

It was only the on ramp, honest.

[Lou Girardin]

So they obvious solution is to blow up the beehive?

Don't burn your lips on the chimney.

[yungatart]

Has anyone actually DONE anything to work for their youth and community - rather than sit around bitching about it.

Go and put in some time at the Y, the youth club, community centre, or do 'something' other than moan - you probably can make a big difference. I know I did.

Yep, managed 1st XI hockey team for three years, coached soccer for two, managed and coached a canoe polo team for 2 years, ran a church band, helped out at other youth bands, transported kids to this that and the other, provide a venue for band practices, member of my local church youth council, been to Parachute with 60 odd kids, been active in marching, guides, keas, cubs and scouts, currently a teacher aide at a high school and have to dash now as I have to get hXc fed before he performs in the chamber music festival with his percussion group tonight.
Kids are probably "on average" no worse today than they were 30 years ago - but there is an awful lot more media publicity about it today. I meet a lot of kids and 99% of them are real cool. I love the enthusiasm, spontaneity and plain whackineess of teenagers and when I grow up I want to be just like them!

[Ixion]

,,, Of course we're all perfect and never did anything dumb as teenagers, like getting raging drunk and then vomiting all over your (now ex) girlfriend at a school ball, or putting the car in 4th instead of reverse and gentling nudging the car in front instead of reversing out of the park the first time you are allowed out in the car by yourself. ,,.

WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT THAT? You've been talking to my Mum , haven't you