This Guy Makes TWO Good Points

[wari]

I haveto start ereading more carefully ...

I thought ...

This guy makes two good PINTS ...

[rodgerd]

And without power steering

Well, I hate power steering, anyway. Good luck finding cars without it these days.

I think 1600 is a good compromise, given that most of us will learn on the family car, but I have to admit 1300 seems good, too. After all, a Toyota Trueno claims a bit under 160 HP out of a 1.6 litre engine, which seems a bit much for a learner.

But definitely not the Aussie "Power/Weight ratio" that makes it legal to drive Ford Falcons but would bar some Corollas (hmm, protectionism under another guise?)

[wkid_one]

Nope dude ya miss my point. If kids couldn't legally drive till age 17 but could ride scooters or small bikes. Long term imagine the difference in driver awareness of motorcycles.

Yup - and imagine the impact on our ACC premiums as they all fall off on a regular basis!

I don't think it is a question of which vehicle they drive to start with - I think it is just a general case of driver education. Any moron in NZ can get a license. And once you have it - see you again in 10 years time - wicked!

Take the punishment of the Asian guy who had pulled 4 times and then still got behind the wheel and killed someone! Our transport system is largely toothless.

We test someone for probably a grand total of 90 mins max - and then say they are competent to drive for 10 years! And then at the end of that 10 years they pay a fee and get another 10 years - and so the cycle continues.

Regardless of what vehicle someone learns to drive - if they are incompetent - they are incompetent.

Putting learners in bikes first - under what logic is that a good idea? Restricting horsepower? Again why?

Teach a man to fish rather than give a man a fish. How many times have you come to a roundabout only to be stuck there because the person in the front of the queue doesn't know how a roundabout works? What does this have to do with what vehicle people drive.

The 'Great NZ Driving Challenge' showed NZers have a general and significant lack of understanding and knowledge of NZ Road Rules - this won't change regardless of what vehicles they drive - and it appears it was the OLDER generation who were more at fault.

I know - I personally on a bike would rather face an asian in a 300HP WRX who knows the road rules - than a 72 year old Kiwi Male who doesn't when I come to an intersection!

[RiderInBlack]

Luxury, when I was a lad (sorry been reading the Monty Python Thread ) my first car (if you could call it a car, more like a pregant rollerskate, sorry won't happen again) was a Fiat Bambina (with a throbbing all powerful 500cc twin engine). Manage to roll it up hill 1 1/4 turns first week of owning it. Later jumped a full fence with it (so much for power restrictions).

Still power restrictions for learner "cage" liciences might be a dam good Idea (Boy Racers beware)

[pete376403]

a guy I worked with when doing my apprenticeship had a Bambina. His had the Nardi 650 conversion (a VW1300 barrel and head) F*ckin thing went like stink, however Nardi never uprated the brakes (Bambinas, like Bugattis, were made to go, not stop...)

[Big Dog]

Make it 1300 and I'd be happy. And without power steering and braking and remove the damn stereo!

Good luck, that would put every pizza joint in nz out of the delivery game.

[Big Dog]

Make it 1300 and I'd be happy. And without power steering and braking and remove the damn stereo!

What are you going to do with 6 footers?

The only way I get in a modern cage let alone a jappa 1300 is with the seat right back and leaned back homy style.

[RiderInBlack]

What are you going to do with 6 footers?

The only way I get in a modern cage let alone a jappa 1300 is with the seat right back and leaned back homy style.

The old VW Beatle 1300, Mate. It was one of the only cars that my Grandfather at 6'10" could drive comfortably We still have it. Just needs a COF so it can be reg'ed
Or a old Morry Thou.

[rodgerd]

I don't think it is a question of which vehicle they drive to start with - I think it is just a general case of driver education. Any moron in NZ can get a license. And once you have it - see you again in 10 years time - wicked!

Actually, I don't know about when you got your license, but it's a damn site tought now than when I got my car license ('86) and that in and of itself was a huge step up from the pre-graduated days.

We test someone for probably a grand total of 90 mins max - and then say they are competent to drive for 10 years! And then at the end of that 10 years they pay a fee and get another 10 years - and so the cycle continues.

Which is a good reason to retest every 10 years, and to invest in decent public transport so we don't, as in the States, refuse to license people because it would make their lives too difficult.

Restricting horsepower? Again why?

Because it gives an opportunity to learn in a less dangerous vehicle. Or are you seriously telling me there's no difference in the learning experience and likelhood of death by auto in a learner rider on a GN250 and a GSX-R1000? Or a Corolla sedan and a Lotus Elise?

The 'Great NZ Driving Challenge' showed NZers have a general and significant lack of understanding and knowledge of NZ Road Rules - this won't change regardless of what vehicles they drive - and it appears it was the OLDER generation who were more at fault.

Yes. Ask some 50 years olds how many of them got their licenses by just showing up and going around the block. Drivers' licensing has improved massively as a result of graduated schemes. The missing link is that there's still no reason to study up on the rules again until you're 75, and the people who got their license from the Weetbix packet days won't be retested until then.

Or if Grey Power have their way, never.

[rodgerd]

What are you going to do with 6 footers?

The only way I get in a modern cage let alone a jappa 1300 is with the seat right back and leaned back homy style.

Trying the wrong cars then. I fit comfortably in every Toyota, Nissan, or Mitsi I've gotten into, from 1300 cc Corollas up to Skylines. I'm cramped in Falcons and Commodores, that seem to suffer from some wierd reverse-Tardis effect, and have never fit into a Honda happily.

Perhaps you should try some "Jappas" instead of just dissing them.

[Big Dog]

Trying the wrong cars then. I fit comfortably in every Toyota, Nissan, or Mitsi I've gotten into, from 1300 cc Corollas up to Skylines. I'm cramped in Falcons and Commodores, that seem to suffer from some wierd reverse-Tardis effect, and have never fit into a Honda happily.

Perhaps you should try some "Jappas" instead of just dissing them.

Love the fit of a 'coon, hate the fit of almost every jap 1300 except civic type r's and MR2 funnily enough both have a lot of legroom.

[Big Dog]

Perhaps you should try some "Jappas" instead of just dissing them.

Much respect for the 2l+ but sub 1300 can be a bit of a joke. I have owned more cars than I can count and only 7 of them were not jappa's. I have also driven more cars than most people have or will ever be in, having worked for car yards, valets, mechanics etc.

[vifferman]

Putting learners in bikes first - under what logic is that a good idea?

If every would-be driver had to ride a small bike or scooter for 6 months or a year before progressing to a car (or bigger bike), it would be a good idea because:

1. The truly incompetent would be removed from the gene pool.
2. It would give them a better appreciation of the dangers associated with negotiating our roads (when not coccooned in a nice safe, warm car)
3. The roads wouldn't be clogged with so many 1-passenger cars.
4. Some of them might actually enjoy the experience and become bikers.
5. Motorists would have more sympathy/respect/courtesy/warm-fuzzy-feelings towards motorcyclists (as in Italy).

[Lou Girardin]

No power steering or brakes? I spent a third of my driving career with that, no thanks.
Learners need to learn car control, muscling it through corners or wondering if it'll stop won't help that.
Did you know that it is possible to get a full car licence without knowing how to start on a hill, do a three point turn or parallel park? The LTSA hopes that instructors will teach these skills. But then, some instructors don't even teach correct seating position.
The full driving test is another initiative developed by Monash university. It was designed to remove all subjective evaluation by the tester and replace it with a standard series of test situations. As a side benefit, this allowed the testing companies to employ testers who had no experience of advanced driving skills, but could administer the test according to the book. Unfortunately it is also possible to learn this test by rote which will enable a pass but still hides some basic deficiencies in the learners skills. I lost count of the number of immigrant drivers that used to follow us around while on a test, trying to learn what to do. (Cheaper than an instructor)
The best driving test was the old advanced driving test. You drove for 45 minutes, the instructor gave you directions only and observed your performance. It was a very subjective test. But it revealed a great deal to an experienced tester.
As for requiring learners to ride bikes first, the LTSA, ACC, OSH, etc. don't even want us on bikes, let alone new recruits. In contrast, Europe encourages 2 wheel transport.
There must be some deep, Calvanistic urge in our authorities to ensure we don't enjoy ourselves too much.