Doctors Strike - Right Wrong?

[Hitcher]

If you want to make money as a Doctor, you become a GP and fiddle your Govt. Subsidy.

Or become an orthopod and repair people's knees for the same price as a new Bandit. Or become a plastic surgeon and perform all sorts of heinous acts on middle-aged women...

[Paul in NZ]

Or become a plastic surgeon and perform all sorts of heinous acts on middle-aged women...

Oh? Can I charge plastic surgeons rates for performing all sorts of heinous acts on one middle aged woman? Well attempting them anyway - I think her resolve is weakening...

[Winston001]

If you want to make money as a Doctor, you become a GP and fiddle your Govt. Subsidy.

Actually Hitcher has it right. To really do well in medicine you need to specialise. That's where the real money is. Obstetrics, gerentology, proctology, urology, cardio-vascular etc. GPs don't earn huge incomes which is one reason why new doctors aren't doing it.

I don't mind young doctors being paid properly, and working reasonable rather than extraordinary hours. I do mind that tax-payers are loaded with an overstaffed hospital system and the hospital boards can't adjust staffing to fit the need.

[Hitcher]

Oh? Can I charge plastic surgeons rates for performing all sorts of heinous acts on one middle aged woman?

I suspect if you expected payment you may have to involve BayCorp...

[James Deuce]

Actually Hitcher has it right. To really do well in medicine you need to specialise. That's where the real money is. Obstetrics, gerentology, proctology, urology, cardio-vascular etc. GPs don't earn huge incomes which is one reason why new doctors aren't doing it.

I don't mind young doctors being paid properly, and working reasonable rather than extraordinary hours. I do mind that tax-payers are loaded with an overstaffed hospital system and the hospital boards can't adjust staffing to fit the need.

Aaargh, I was taking the MIckey.

My wife used to flat with one of the guys who set up Pacific Radiology. That was always his plan, from year one. Specialise in Radiology, create a practice, create a brand, get rich, retire early.

It seems to be working.

However DHB based Senior Consultants struggle to hit $200,000k, which in most developed countries would be an insult.

It's not just young doctors that need a pay adjustment.

[Ixion]

,,
However DHB based Senior Consultants struggle to hit $200,000k, which in most developed countries would be an insult.

It's not just young doctors that need a pay adjustment.

$200000 - ferking hell , can I please be insulted. I need a pay adjustment too.

My heart bleeds for the poor buggers, having to scrimp by on only $200000 per year.

Must mention it to the next bus driver I see, make him aware how well off he is compared to some people.

[madboy]

Yep, $200k is an insult. 99.9% of society who don't earn that sort of money have tremendous sympathy for them. I'm the first to preach capitalism, but capitalism says you go where the money is - if you want to make money you don't stay in the public health sector. Most can make as much money on the 1 day a week they work privately as they will in the other 4 they work in public. Go ask an established opthamologist or plastic surgeon who do private work what they declared to the taxman last year - bet they'd be having trouble making the payments on the Aston Martin.

Sure, it's all relative - overseas the potential is much greater. But everything overseas has more earning potential, that's how it is. It's not just limited to the medical profession. Was chatting with a mate on the weekend who lives in the US. He's in IT. He's bringing home more dollar for dollar than he can in NZ, has much much greater earning/promotion potential, has better tax breaks, cheaper housing (where he is), cheaper clothing, cheaper cars (way way waaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper). But does that mean we should all pack up and go off to the US? I accept that by living in NZ I have the limitations that being in a small geographically isolated country entails. Doctors should to.

Which brings us to the next point - where all the doctors are buggering off overseas...

[Winston001]

Which brings us to the next point - where all the doctors are buggering off overseas...

UK, USA, Canada, Saudi.................

And our doctors come from India, Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Malaysia......................

Funny old world isn't it.

[placidfemme]

I see this as a long term problem. A junior doctor now striking and using what I class as 'Extreme' methods to get payrises. Risking people lives is extreme.

And think of this way... if they want more money while training... then they will want even more money when fully qualified and experienced... therefore resulting in more expensive operations and medical services... therefore longer waiting lists... more work... more stress... and OMG that might just justify another strike for another payrise...

Nice that they are striking and delaying cancer operations and treatments (and other life saving operations).

Don't doctors take oaths to save peoples lives... no-one told me they added a new clause "Only if we think we're getting paid enough". The Dr's oath is a load of crap and just there to make them feel good about themselves... its a job... they chose the job, they should do the job.

And if they really get paid so shit, surely there are other methods then putting people lives at risk...

[James Deuce]

I see this as a long term problem. A junior doctor now striking and using what I class as 'Extreme' methods to get payrises. Risking people lives is extreme.

When Nurses strike you risk people's lives. When Junior Doctors strike it means there's more food left over in the cafe at the end of the day. The reason Ops are postponed is to force the Junior Docs back to work by giving the PR firms an emotional lever to make the Junior Docs look like Scum.

Realistically the core product of a Hospital is managing patient care. The Ops can still be done by the Consultant and Registrar surgeons. The Surgical House Surgeons are generally in the theatre to learn and observe, not do.

[placidfemme]

When Nurses strike you risk people's lives. When Junior Doctors strike it means there's more food left over in the cafe at the end of the day. The reason Ops are postponed is to force the Junior Docs back to work by giving the PR firms an emotional lever to make the Junior Docs look like Scum.

Realistically the core product of a Hospital is managing patient care. The Ops can still be done by the Consultant and Registrar surgeons. The Surgical House Surgeons are generally in the theatre to learn and observe, not do.

Then if they don't actually do the operations, then what are they wanting more money for?

[Winston001]

Then if they don't actually do the operations, then what are they wanting more money for?

Operations are a small part of a hospital's work. Much of it is treatment, assessment, and monitoring of patients. Surgery is a last resort.

In a nutshell,the junior doctors want more money and 100 more young doctors in hospitals.

Can't blame them for striking - how else does any person make a point except by withdrawing their labour? I think their cause is ill-conceived but respect their right to strike.

[placidfemme]

Operations are a small part of a hospital's work. Much of it is treatment, assessment, and monitoring of patients. Surgery is a last resort.

In a nutshell,the junior doctors want more money and 100 more young doctors in hospitals.

Ok... The more money thing I get... everyone wants more money, doesn't matter how much you have, more can't hurt any (cept the person paying... of course)

They want 100 more Dr's? For one hospital? Or spread out over the country...

I don't fully understand that, but how will striking help get more Dr's? If they want more Dr's they should be making the profession of a Dr seem like a good thing for students to start studying shouldn't they? (Don't know if that makes sense but it does in my head lol )

[Ixion]

,,

Can't blame them for striking - how else does any person make a point except by withdrawing their labour? I think their cause is ill-conceived but respect their right to strike.

I can think of at least 20 ways to make life hell for the hospital administrators without major impact on patients. Part of a good union delegate's job is to find ways to put pressure on the employer whilst minimising negative effects on the workers themselves or "inncocent bystanbders" (customers, public, other workers etc).

[Winston001]

They want 100 more Dr's? For one hospital? Or spread out over the country.

.

For the whole country I think.

If they want more Dr's they should be making the profession of a Dr seem like a good thing for students to start studying shouldn't they? (Don't know if that makes sense but it does in my head lol )

You'd think so wouldn't you? But in NZ the number of medical students is controlled by government and the Medical Council. Government only funds a certain number of med school placements each year, thus restricting the number of potential doctors. The Medical Council have input on the number.

Why limit? Med schools are very expensive - despite student fees, most of the money comes from taxation. Dentistry is slightly worse. Also the academic standards to get into med school are very high, so many students miss out. After all, we don't want dumb and dumber as our doctors.

In Australia, if you miss out on med entry, you can still proceed paying your own way. Interesting twist and worth trying here. But we should mainly expand the numbers allowed in each year.

To stop young doctors from leaving, the government could offer to write-off their loan on a year for year basis. I could live with that. It seems such a waste to educate these people who then move overseas.