This Guy Makes TWO Good Points

**Slim** · 23rd May 2004, 07:20

Check This Out and also the link to the "Open Letter to the Soccer Moms of America" at the bottom of the page.

I think the Editors comment in Two Wheels this month perhaps supported this theory (and it's one we've all heard) with references to riding a motorbike in Rome and having other traffic actually see them AND give way to them because simple economics meant that most drivers started their career on two wheels.

Dave Despain's comments about the lack of driver education are equally relevant down here and I thought keeping his suggestion to off-road experience only was restrained & well supported, perhaps making it more palatable to his intended audience (although what're the chances that a Soccer Mom will actually read it??? :spudwhat: )

**madandy** · 23rd May 2004, 10:00

That was a good read.Very true about the skills developed on dirt bikes.
Now if only the law makers understood what he was saying.

**RiderInBlack** · 23rd May 2004, 10:29

Yep he has a point or two there.

Because all my early driving was done on metal roads in a "cage", my "cage" handling skills are better when the shit hits the fan (my reflexs know how to control a skid). Just wish I had done dirt bike riding before getting into bikes (for the same reasons).
Riding bikes has improved my awarenious of road conditions and other road uses. It has got to the point that I often react to something on the road ahead of me before I get a chance to see it properly (eg. backing off, moving to oneside, or powering up to avoid a possible haszard, or sometimes just bracing myself and looking for a way out if things go to custard).

**FROSTY:Me** · 23rd May 2004, 10:54

now if only we could raise the age of getting a car licence in NZ and have the same age for sub150cc bikes as stands at present. --wouldn't that just boost the biker population

**rodgerd** · 23rd May 2004, 11:06

Originally Posted by xjxjxj

now if only we could raise the age of getting a car licence in NZ and have the same age for sub150cc bikes as stands at present. --wouldn't that just boost the biker population

Why? I've had very few close calls with 17 year old in cars. Going on my experience, the best thing for bike safety would be to force all drivers to resit their practical every 10 years. That should clear some of the nitwits off the road.

Unfortunately, we're going the American route here, with the roads, roads, uber alles focus on transport funding (buses? trains? No, build more roads!); increasing agitation from the likes of Grey Power demanding that 80 years olds not have the "indignity" of proving they're still safe to drive.

And to top it all off, we allow anyone to drive here for a year on a foreign license, which is one of the most absurdly generous schemes around. We even accept licenses from countries which are banned in much of the rest of the world!

**FROSTY:Me** · 23rd May 2004, 12:15

Nope dude ya miss my point. If kids couldn't legally drive till age 17 but could ride scooters or small bikes. Long term imagine the difference in driver awareness of motorcycles.

**Ghost Lemur** · 23rd May 2004, 13:49

Originally Posted by xjxjxj

Nope dude ya miss my point. If kids couldn't legally drive till age 17 but could ride scooters or small bikes. Long term imagine the difference in driver awareness of motorcycles.

I think the Two Wheels editorial discribed it best. He wrote about how when he started seeing his current gf/wife? her mother started on about how many more bikes were all of a sudden on the roads these days. It wasn't actually that there were more bikes on the road but rather she'd only just started noticing them due to an increased interest by association.

I agree it would be a brilliant idea to restrict say 15-17 year olds to under 100cc or maybe do it by hp as well (ie they could have a gutless 250 cb/gn etc). This would mean when these kids reach adult hood they "see" bikes because they have that association of having once been on them.

It'd also have the added benefit of preventing underage drink driving. Well not preventing per se, but rather hindering due to the fact it's "harder" to ride than to drive. They can't carry as many passangers, so where as before 4/5 teens were killed in one of these incidents at most it could only be 2. Also there chances of taking out other motorist is lessened too.

Another example for the two wheels editiorial would be when you get a new bike/cage the number of same vehicles on the road seems to increase. Of course it hasn't, but rather your interest in them and therefore awareness has.

**Big Dog** · 23rd May 2004, 14:33

Well thought out.
While a little general there are some undeniable truths, My driving has improved tenfold since I have been riding, and another twofold since I did My ht's. Get a different perspective and all of a sudden you know why my concrete truck can't see you.

I still consider myself a substandard / inexperienced driver, so imagine how bad I would be otherwise.

**FROSTY:Me** · 23rd May 2004, 14:47

Originally Posted by Ghost Lemur

I think the Two Wheels editorial discribed it best. He wrote about how when he started seeing his current gf/wife? her mother started on about how many more bikes were all of a sudden on the roads these days. It wasn't actually that there were more bikes on the road but rather she'd only just started noticing them due to an increased interest by association.

I agree it would be a brilliant idea to restrict say 15-17 year olds to under 100cc or maybe do it by hp as well (ie they could have a gutless 250 cb/gn etc). This would mean when these kids reach adult hood they "see" bikes because they have that association of having once been on them.

It'd also have the added benefit of preventing underage drink driving. Well not preventing per se, but rather hindering due to the fact it's "harder" to ride than to drive. They can't carry as many passangers, so where as before 4/5 teens were killed in one of these incidents at most it could only be 2. Also there chances of taking out other motorist is lessened too.

Another example for the two wheels editiorial would be when you get a new bike/cage the number of same vehicles on the road seems to increase. Of course it hasn't, but rather your interest in them and therefore awareness has.

um er --well yep that WAS my point

Yamahamaman · 23rd May 2004, 16:20

New drivers now just don't have the feeling of vulnerability. All their lives they have been driven to school - next thing you know, they are driving themselves to school without even having to know how to cross the road safely let alone ride a bicycle.

IMHO everyone should start their driving experience on a motorcycle.

Forget ACC. Where there is an accident, the person in charge of the bigger vehicle is automatically at fault. That should improve driving skills...

**Ghost Lemur** · 23rd May 2004, 16:37

Originally Posted by xjxjxj

um er --well yep that WAS my point

I know. I should have put an "I agree completely xjxjxj" at the start of my post, as ot was directed at rodgerd. :cool2:

**Skyryder** · 23rd May 2004, 16:53

Originally Posted by Yamahamaman

New drivers now just don't have the feeling of vulnerability. All their lives they have been driven to school - next thing you know, they are driving themselves to school without even having to know how to cross the road safely let alone ride a bicycle.

IMHO everyone should start their driving experience on a motorcycle.

Forget ACC. Where there is an accident, the person in charge of the bigger vehicle is automatically at fault. That should improve driving skills...

Let me see if I understand your post. In your first pargraph you suggest that 'new drivers' are basicly incompetant. And in your last paragraph you claim that the persosn in charge of the larger vehicle should 'automaticly' be
at fault so as to 'improve their driving skills" So what you are saying is that the incompetant driver of a small vehicle is always right in the event of an accident with a larger vehicle simply because the driver of the larger vehicle has not improved their driving skills.

Just love these icons. Better than words.

Skyryder

**rodgerd** · 24th May 2004, 07:31

Originally Posted by xjxjxj

Nope dude ya miss my point. If kids couldn't legally drive till age 17 but could ride scooters or small bikes. Long term imagine the difference in driver awareness of motorcycles.

The main reason teens don't ride bikes anymore are (a) percieved danger and (b) cheap, powerful import cars being readily available.

If you try to force 17 year olds onto bikes, well, it'll never get past the parents.

It would be easier to force learner/restricted car drivers into the same sort of restrictions we have for learner/restricted bike riders - say a maximum of a normally aspirated 1600cc engine for any car being driven by a learner.

**rodgerd** · 24th May 2004, 07:33

Originally Posted by Yamahamaman

Forget ACC. Where there is an accident, the person in charge of the bigger vehicle is automatically at fault. That should improve driving skills...

Yeah, that'd encourage responsible behaviour on the road. I mean, cyclists and riders are *never* responsible for crashes. Neither are drivers of Subaru Imprezas; if there's a collision with a Land Rover, it's allways the Land Rover driver's fault, even if they were stationary!