BRONZ Buslane action plan

[Big Dave]

Mr Ixion and I attended the BRONZ Akl meeting last night and have hatched a cunning plan.

We tabled a motion to respond to the Motorway Bus lanes issue and have asked BRONZ to formulate a position statement.

Here's where all you lot come in.

Mr Ix and I are happy to grab the tannoy and be the idiot out the front chanting 'what do we want - when do we want it' but would like some help/consensus in drafting the answers to those questions.

Transit have sent BRONZ a 'form letter' stating the reasons they don't want bikes on the lanes - surface irregularities, surface condition and the exit cross overs were cited - as well as an inference that some of the reason is that it will 'piss car drivers off'.

On hearing the transit resonse (which I will try to obtain forthwith) I am quite sure that none of their objections offer any greater risk than having motorcyclists lane split up the middle of the lines of traffic.

I believe that there is a safer, better, smarter option by placing necessary caveats - speed limits, times, whatever on the availability of said lanes to motorcyclists.

When the position paper is formulated by BRONZ it will be posted on the new web site:
http://www.davidcohen.co.nz/bronz/

and we will ask KBers etc to write (email a form letter) to the minister and relevant statutory gooneys demanding change.

So to that end:

How can the Bus lanes be safely used by motorcyclists.
(bullet points preferably please)

Mr Ixion? add?

[Gremlin]

Make em make some more on the southern... I would use em too, they're cheaper

Biggest thing I think is speed... now I don't want to state a restriction, as everyone has their own opinion on that, but all the issues would stem from that.

Crossing ridges, well, the hard shoulder has those, the faster you go, the harder it is. You slow down, and make a quick turn onto the other surface, and it goes easier. You don't want to be getting the wheels caught either.

Speed differential to the traffic as well may be an issue, when merging, you do not want to be trying to pull into 20kph traffic from 80kph For merging, just how do they think the buses do it?? They are huuuuge compared to us, we can speed match, and slip into a gap, the bus just shoves its way in as it pleases.

For the surface, well, again, speed. Faster you go, the trickier it becomes, slower, and its manageable. I would have issues with debris off the bus wheels lines, as thats common knowledge with cyclists.

Fark, all this speed crap, I sound like LTNZ, but before I shoot myself for it, remember, we have to make this tolerable to them, we can't go in demanding. We need to get it in the first place, then eeek out extras down the track, once its in their mindset that we can use it.

[WRT]

My gut feeling is that the bus lanes should be in effect based on how heavy the main flow of traffic is, and the simplest way to do that is to put in place a speed limit on the bus lane.

For example, say it gets limited to 50kph, same as suburban streets. Buses, bikes, who ever is allowed to use it will only do so when the traffic on the motorway is doing less than 50kph. This could be any time of the day or night, for example, during that big mess when Sylvia Park opened, or if one of the mway lanes are blocked by an accident/breakdown. If you put a time limit on when the bus lanes are available then this wont be catered to.

[Devil]

Thanks Dave/Ix for getting stuck in.

Whatever argument is chosen, I'd personally stay away from saying that the bus lane would be better than lane splitting. Basically that argument is far too easy to shoot down, solely because we dont have to lane split.

[WRT]

Also at the moment with lane splitting being semi-legal, I think it would be best to steer clear of any suggestion that it is "less safe" than anything incase the powers that be see that as an opening to make it outright illegal.

And as Death said - thanks BD and Ixion!

[bobsmith]

But land-splitting must be safer than getting sandwitched between two cages? (ie the cage behind you that's so bored and reading a newspaper rams into you and crush you into the cage in front?)

[Swoop]

Good on ya, guys!


Bus lanes only get used when traffic is built up, and slow moving, so re-entering the traffic flow is fairly safe & simple.

So bike conditions could be:
1. Same conditions as when the busses use them (times or "whenever busses are using them" and the same speed limit )?
2. No bikes under a certain size? (to avoid busses being held up by someone on a 50cc scootah)

My 2c.

[Marmoot]

How can the Bus lanes be safely used by motorcyclists.
(bullet points preferably please)

Big Dave, with all seriousness, the state of Motorway Buslane is no worse than the state of some actual streets in Auckland City (Anzac Ave, Whitaker Place, Symonds Street southbound right lane, etc) in terms of surface irregularities, slipperiness, loose surface, vehicle mergings and lane widths.

If motorcyclists are expected to cope with that condition, there is no excuse why motorcyclists would not be able to cope with Motorway Buslanes.

As for speed, if the buslane usage is regulated in rush-hour only, the speed difference between motorway traffic and those streets mentioned above is non existent.

Either Transit (1) allow motorway buslanes to be used, or (2) fix those city streets to not make them look like buslanes (or even worse).

Thank you.

[Big Dave]

Of course I forgot to say if anyone can see good reason why motorcycles should NOT use the bus lanes - please speak up.

One of the guys at the meeting is a Bus driver and we asked him if any adverse impact - no.

And - can anyone tell me what the official police line is regarding lane splitting on the AKl freeways.

By reading KB my understanding is that it is 'tolerated if sensible'.
Anybody know for sure is that da fax?

Any of you coppers care to comment on the above - please?

[Zapf]

I would like to say the bus lane idea is good. But certian speed limits should be placed on traffic within the bus lane, motorcycles included.

This is to reduce the difference in speed between the bus / bikes travelling in the lane and normal motorway lanes. A high difference in speed can potentially reduce the reaction time available should evasive action needs to be taken.

In the medium to long term, transit should also aim to have bus lanes resurfaced to the same quality as normal motorway

[Macktheknife]

Good on you BD and Ix, why not just have them compared to any other transit lane for time and speed use? As for the surface considerations, valid to a point but surely that should be part of the general upkeep of the m/way anyhow? At least in terms of foreign objects and such. As for the crossings... tricky but do-able when speed and hazard taken into consideration.

[RT527]

Saw a Fulton And Hogan Truck driving up one of the bus lanes on the shore the other day with a Magnetic Bar suspended from the rear just above the road so if their doing that then there is no metal pieces on the road is there?...another point they make is that the road surface isnt able to withstand large volumes of traffic....Um what I`d like to Know is since when did a motorcycle have the ability to point load over one axle of about 6 1/2 tonne like the buses do, so any damage done to the road would not be done by us motorcyclists!.
Just a couple of points and my 2 cents worth!.

[James Deuce]

Of course I forgot to say if anyone can see good reason why motorcycles should NOT use the bus lanes - please speak up.

One of the guys at the meeting is a Bus driver and we asked him if any adverse impact - no.

And - can anyone tell me what the official police line is regarding lane splitting on the AKl freeways.

By reading KB my understanding is that it is 'tolerated if sensible'.
Anybody know for sure is that da fax?

Any of you coppers care to comment on the above - please?

Lane splitting is technically legal in NZ because each lane on a motorway or SH is in effect its own highway.

When lane splitting you MUST:

1. Pass the vehicle to the right of the vehicle being overtaken and in the same lane.
2. You must be indicating when making the pass.
3. If you have to cross into another lane to overtake a car you may NOT pass another vehicle on the left.
4. If you have to change lanes while lane splitting you must indicate your changes of direction.
5. Heuristically speaking in regard to speed differential, lane splitting at 20km/hr (or less) than the flow traffic is generally tolerated provided you aren't exceeding 50km/hr. (This is from asking a bike cop, so it is both anecdotal and one man's opinion)

I'm all for it - provided we get some motorway bus lanes in Wellington.

[Gremlin]

Jim2 has got it in one... I was just pulled for passing on the left on Thursday morning (by a bike cop ), $150 tax... so obeying the pointers listed by Jim2 would be good

If they are really hankering for your arse, they may still get you if you don't indicate for at least 3 seconds before changing lanes.

My biggest gripe with splitting, is that the cars always travel on the RHS of the lane, making passing extremely difficult, and in my view more dangerous than being a few centimetres to the right. Also reckon it wouldn't change much in terms of danger from the driver in the fast lane. Anyway, lane splitting has been done to death.

Not a good idea to compare splitting to bus lanes IMHO, as has been said.

[Bevel]

Big thanks to BRONZ and Big Dave for taking on this issue. Swoop nailed it when he said same conditions as for buses but to put it in black and white,
-Max speed 80 K (It could easily be faster but let's give a little)
-No overtaking (I know this seems obvious but it has already been used as a reason to ban bikes)
-Max speed of 40K in bus transfer stations
-Transit NZ should eliminate the shoulder on all new busways.
-Transit should feather the shoulder where necessary on existing buslanes. Especially at the ends of the bus lanes.