BRONZ Buslane action plan

**Bevel** · 28th June 2006, 22:13

None of Transit NZ arguments hold water.
1st the safety argument doesn’t stack up.
-We merge more on the motorway anyway.
-We encounter far worse road surfaces all over NZ than in bus lanes
-The shoulders can be improved (easily) but are not insurmountable
-The debris are no worse than on the motorway and are more avoidable because they are seen earlier
-We know to avoid buses and they can see us better and so should be better able to avoid us
-We can drive slower on bus lanes and through terminals if that is what is required
-Bus lanes remove us from our biggest threat – cars

The congestion issue is not valid
-They aren’t buses or passengers to fully utilize the bus lanes
-There aren’t enough motorcycles to clog them up
- Slow bikes like moped are already outlawed on motorways
- Unlike taxi’s and cars motorbikes Motorcycles will never hold up buses

Benefits
More people will use bikes
Less petrol usage
More parking space in the city
Less danger for motorcyclist

And there's bound to be more

**Big Dave** · 28th June 2006, 22:15

Originally Posted by Bevel

None of Transit NZ arguments hold water.
1st the safety argument doesn’t stack up.

Nice job!
I have the next few days putting KR pages together then we'll attack this.

**Krayy** · 30th June 2006, 09:57

As an aside, when they were asking for submissions on road charges, I put one in with the idea that instead of the ring charges, they should look at implementing rush hour "car pooling" lanes where you could only use them if your vehicle was at at least 50% occupancy. Of course, bikes would qualify by default. Anther option is to reverse it and force all though with single occupancy cages to use the right most lane only, leaving the others free for car poolers.

The reduction in car traffic in the left most lanes would then take care of the merging danger from bikes in bus lanes.

**James Deuce** · 30th June 2006, 10:21

Krayy, that's a brilliant idea. Most cars are 5 seater by definition and seatbelts, so people would either have to have two people, plus a neighbour they chopped in half, or a minimum of 3 people in the car. Good thinking!

**Divot** · 30th June 2006, 14:24

Originally Posted by twinkle

Do the busses have a speed restriction at the moment on the bus lanes?

YES, 50KMH

**Krayy** · 30th June 2006, 18:50

Originally Posted by Jim2

Krayy, that's a brilliant idea. Most cars are 5 seater by definition and seatbelts, so people would either have to have two people, plus a neighbour they chopped in half, or a minimum of 3 people in the car. Good thinking!

May I interest you in a business opportunity to do with plastic seat covers and blood remover??

(Maybe a sideline in chainsaws too)

**Bevel** · 30th June 2006, 19:23

Thank you for your email, timed at 20:22 on Monday 19th June 2006, re motorcyclists using the bus lanes that have been established on sections of motorway emergency stopping shoulder.

As I outlined in my emailed response to your original enquiry, Transit has, for safety and operational reasons, restricted the use of clearly-defined sections of the emergency stopping shoulder to timetabled commuter buses during peak traffic times. As I mentioned previously, Transit does not have any plans to review its policy on the controlled use of motorway shoulders in the short term.

Some Territorial Local Authorities have established Bus Lanes, or more often "Transit Lanes", on arterial local roads. Those carriageways were constructed as normal running lanes and are in many cases are available to buses, cars with three or more occupants, cycles and motorcycles. In most cases, these facilities have been established in low-speed (50 km/h) urban areas.

Thank you for your invitation to join you, as pillion passenger, for a ride across Auckland Harbour Bridge one morning during the peak traffic time. However, I must decline your offer.

Safe riding.

Yours sincerely
Warwick Mason

Traffic Engineer (& motorcyclist)

**Big Dave** · 30th June 2006, 20:16

BRONZ has a more detailed response - saying the same thing.
I'm still trying to get my mits on it.

Thanks for posting.

Do you have the letter you sent originally still?

**Bevel** · 30th June 2006, 23:03

He is all my correspondence to date with Transit NZ.
So far their arguements haven't convinced me. Please email them yourselves if you think you can support my argument. The more noise we make on this issue the more chance we will be able to win it.

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil
To: planning@transit.govt.nz
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:26 PM
Subject: Motorcycles in Bus Lanes

I travel via motorcycle during peak hour on SH1 in Auckland from Esmonde Rd over the Harbour Bridge.
I have heard that Transit does not allow motorcycles to use the Bus lane because it is considered too dangerous.

I have to ask have the people who made this decision ever had to ride a motorcycle between two rows of impatient cars that merge at random and are only inches from their bike?

As an experience motorcyclist with over 20 years of riding experience I can assure you that traveling in the bus lane is far safer. When in a bus lane I can see a bus coming from miles away and I am in a position to avoid it. He can also see me.

Car drivers are not expecting motorcycles to zip between the lanes and are not looking for them. Even if a driver was to indicate a motorcyclist may not be able to see their indicators because of the close proximity of other vehicle masking their indicators. So drivers actually resent motorcyclist squeezing past them and go out of their way to hamper their progress as has happened to me on numerous occasions.

Please reconsider the existing ruling as it currently does not make sense to put motorcyclist in harms way. I promise that I will hamper the progress of any buses on my Italian sports bike.

Thank you

Neil Cervin

----- Original Message -----
From: Warwick Mason
To: camco@kiwilink.co.nz
Cc: Nigel Downing
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 12:28 PM
Subject: Ref. Q0606/187: Motorcycles on Bus Lanes

Dear Neil Cervin

Thank you for your message to Transit New Zealand’s (Transit’s) website about motorcyclists using motorway bus lanes.

The shoulders on Auckland’s motorways are primarily emergency stopping areas and are not constructed as running lanes. They are at a lower level than the main carriageway and not surfaced with the same material.

Restricting the use of clearly defined sections of the shoulder to timetabled bus services at specified peak times on weekdays - only when the motorway is congested - means Transit can achieve some control over driver behaviour. Three licensed bus operators currently use the shoulder lanes and advice and direction on shoulder lane use forms part of the training programme for bus drivers. If inappropriate driver behaviour is observed, it is addressed through the bus operators, ensuring that both usage and speed are managed safely.

If vehicles in general were to use the shoulder as a normal running lane (at normal speeds) there would be safety issues with vehicles moving on and off the shoulder with the different carriageway heights and different levels of skid resistance. The stability of motorcyclists would be of particular concern when moving to or from the shoulder.

If motorcyclists were permitted to ride on the shoulders the number of lane changes would be greater than normal because the main carriageway shoulders end at on and off-ramps and motorcyclists would need to change lanes (merge back into the main traffic flow) frequently. The speed differential between the congested main motorway lanes and motorcycles on the shoulder would be problematic and a real safety concern. Unfortunately, for these reasons, it is not currently practical or safe for motorcyclists to ride on the motorway shoulders.

Transit does not have any plans to review its policy on the controlled use of the motorway emergency stopping shoulders in the short term. However, if Transit were to revisit this policy it would consult with representative interest groups, rather than individual users. That would include bus operators, the NZ Automobile Association and a representative national motorcyclist’s association.

I trust that this clarifies the issues raised in your email.

Thank you for your enquiry.

Yours sincerely

Warwick Mason

Warwick Mason
Traffic Engineer
Transit New Zealand
Ph 368.2026

--- Original Message -----
From: Neil
To: Warwick Mason
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: Ref. Q0606/187: Motorcycles on Bus Lanes

Dear Mr Mason
Thank you for you replying to my email and thank you for your concern about motorcycle safety.
Unfortunately I do not agree with you that the bus lane hazards you identified with their different road levels and lane changing requirements are significant issues.
Motorcyclist have to constantly change lanes to maneuver through crawling rush hour traffic. Using bus lanes will actually reduce that hazard. Motorcycles can also adjust their speed up or down to match merging traffic faster than any other vehicle on the road.
The different surfaces and heights is unfortunate but if a motorcyclist cannot handle them then he shouldn't be riding a bike. After all we encounter them all the time with roadwork's. As an aside I have just returned from Melbourne where there are thousands of motorcycles and hundreds of miles of tram tracks. If different road surfaces where such an issue Melbourne would have to either ban motorcycles or trams altogether.
Another anomaly with banning motorcyclist from Transit NZ roads is that we are allowed to use bus lanes controlled by local councils in urban areas. These bus lane have the added hazards of driveways, cyclist and pedestrian to deal with yet are deemed safer.
As an experience motorcyclist with over 20 years in the saddle I can assure you that I am much safer in a bus lane than sandwiched between unsuspecting cars and trucks. I invite you to join me for a ride across Auckland Harbour Bridge one morning to experience first hand the reality of the situation from a motorcyclist perspective.
Yours sincerely
Neil Cervin

(See Warricks responce in my previous message above)

To: clive.fuhr@transit.govt.nz
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:29 PM
Subject: Motorcycles on Bus lanes

Dear Clive
I am writing in response to a letter that written by you that was published on the Kiwibiker forum. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...179#post657179 Please read this thread. It is an interesting debate.
I have heard various concerns about biker safety re surface conditions, different surface heights and merging traffic. None of these Transit NZ safety concerns are as threatening as other road users. I'll take my chances on the bus lane any day as my biggest concern is always mixing it up at close quarters with the driving public and there are less of them on a busway. Remember cars kill more motorcyclist than anything else!
I know you are concerned with bus movement but I can assure you there are not enough buses or motorcyclist to create a congestion issue. You could always review the situation in 10 years time to see if it has changed but right now a bus lane is fairly empty and there are not that many motorcyclist on the road.
Yes your right motorcyclist had their chance to lobby and they didn't but that doesn't make their case wrong. A please keep an open mind on the issue and let's see if there is solution to the problem.
I would like to invite you on a ride with me on the back of my Ducati Monster motorbike through rush hour traffic on the motorway and then on a bus lane so you can experience first hand the situations.
Best regards
Neil Cervin

----- Original Message -----
From: Clive Fuhr
To: camco@kiwilink.co.nz
Cc: Steve Grbic
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Motorcycles on Bus lanes

Neil,
I am currently receiving a number of articles about motorcycle access to motorway 'buslanes'. The publication of a letter and the associated comments perhaps explains this.
Firstly there is an important distinction to be made between the use of the existing emergency stopping shoulders, that buses use in the peak travel times, and use of the Northern Busway which is under construction.
The motorway 'shoulders' are not road carriageway, and buses are only permitted to use them a lower speeds when the motorway is congested. The motorway shoulders are the refuge for broken down/disabled vehicles and there are many reasons why it should not be regarded as an additional vehicle lane - whether that is for bikes or any other vehicles.
As for the future Busway -it is exactly that- a road for buses. There is the possibility of some limited use by 'high occupancy' (3+) vehicles but this will only be in the am peak. Strict speed controls will be in place and there will be no overtaking. Because the Busway is a road in terms of its physical construction there are many groups arguing for access, including motorcyclists, pedal cyclists, taxis, taxi vans and shuttles and non-scheduled buses. If all such uses were accommodated the Busway will lose its primary function - that of enabling buses to form part of the regions 'rapid transit' network.
In a sense it can be compared to seeking access to drive along the railway tracks in a four wheel drive or on a trail bike -it may be technically possible but it is certainly not desirable in terms of maintaining passenger transport corridors that can offer regular and reliable services. This is really a policy isue that has safety considerations to be taken into account.
Thank you for the invitation to ride on your bike. I grew up on the pillion of a Vincent Black Shadow and know the delights and dangers of motorcycling. I would not in any way deny the value of motorcycles for personal travel. Perhaps their role in the transport system needs further debate at a strategic level.
I hope this assists.
Clive Fuhr

**Skyryder** · 2nd July 2006, 18:11

Not too sure of the significance of this. My highlights.

Objective of the Rule
Land Transport Rule: Traffic Control Devices Amendment 2005 amends Land Transport Rule: Traffic Control Devices 2004, which specifies the requirements for the design, construction, installation, operation and maintenance of traffic control devices, and sets out the functions and responsibilities of road controlling authorities in providing traffic control devices.

The objectives of this amendment to Land Transport Rule: Traffic Control Devices 2004 are:

• to substitute a new Roundabout Give-Way sign (R2-3) that incorporates the words ‘Give Way’, and a new Give-way Roundabout variable sign (R2-3.1); and to substitute a new R1-2.1, variable speed sign for the existing sign;
• to amend the definitions of ‘transit lane’ and ‘bus lane’ to allow mopeds to use bus lanes and transit lanes (a corresponding amendment has been included in Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004);
• to make some minor corrections to the Rule, including the insertion of a lane-use arrow diagram that had been inadvertently omitted from Schedule 2 and corrections to the ‘Permitted steady sign displays’ material in Schedule 3.

Pesonaly I dammed if I can see how a moped is safer on a bus lane than 'real' bike. For those of you who are interested in this I would be asking LTNZ this very question................then use their answer in justifying motorcyle use of bus lanes.

Skyryder

**Jantar** · 2nd July 2006, 18:44

The rule already allows motorcycles to use Transit Lanes and Bus lanes, the clarification simply extends that courtesy to Mopeds.

**Lou Girardin** · 4th July 2006, 08:17

Originally Posted by Divot

YES, 50KMH

I've yet to see that. 90's more like it.

**Lou Girardin** · 4th July 2006, 08:21

Just a small point people. All the references to bikes 'zipping' between lanes, being inches from cars, etc, will not do our case any good. It merely reinforces their opinion of us as irresponsible hoons.
(Which we are, but don't admit it)

**Squeak the Rat** · 4th July 2006, 09:09

I completely agree Lou. And it may have the unwanted affect of the authorities deciding lane splitting is dangerous (because we told them), and introducing legislation to make it illegal. As opposed to ambiguous as is the case now.....

Focus on the safety and congestion reduction. Don't say it's safer than lane splitting......