Completely Un-pc Vote

**bluninja** · 14th May 2003, 16:53

Originally posted by Kwaka-Kid
if he had any skill im sure he would have been far enough away from the final cop car within 30 seconds to even hear the lights..

Hearing lights?? Is that with earplugs in or not ?

KK maybe I'm out of line, but I believe the primary role of the police force is to protect the general populace from people that break the law.....that's based on the precept that when someone commits a crime there is a victim. Speeding is a crime where there is no direct victim....just a statistical link to injuries and deaths on the roads. It may be frustrating to let someone escape having committed a crime and to track them down later, but in my eyes the only reason to have a balls out police chase is where the person is likely to kill, injure, or commit a major crime if they are not stopped immediately.

Put it another way, if you were a hostage would you want the police to negotiate your safe release and THEN track down the crim, or just go in and arrest them and stuff the consequences to you. I want the police to keep people safe first and then catch the crims after rather than just catch the crims no matter what the cost.

TTFN

**Hoon** · 14th May 2003, 17:10

Firstly, doing runners...like Blackbird mentioned, the adrenaline rush is very powerful......just one notch lower than full-on panic, if you can't control it, it will control you and get you killed.

I had a very "colourful" youth growing up in West Auckland during the late 80's. By the time I was 21 I had been through 5 cars (all V8's) and lost my license twice. Car chases were a regular weekend activity. The adrenaline rush is something I have yet to match and can be very hard to control (but does become easier with practice). After some chases I had to pull over and run around for a while until the adrenaline wore off because I couldn't keep still or drive at a legal speed without anxiety kicking in. The adrenaline makes you want to throw your vehicle into a corner with your foot to the floor.

I remember one night we were on the town in my V8 LJ Torana. I had swapped seats with my mate who wanted a quick drive. We had just pulled away down Tamaki drive when a cop saw us and came after us (I had done an earlier runner that night along K'Rd). I told my mate to hoof it (his first runner), he went down a wrong side street which ended up being very twisty and he didn't slow down much to my amazement. Took the first corner barely but the second corner went into a slide and slammed into the kerb sideways - we were still going but after he missed the next turn I told him to pull over because he clearly was not in control. He got pinged big time and I got 2 busted up rims.

In a Police chase situation, Adrenaline/fear/panic makes people exceed their abilities and this is what kills.

Thankfully I grew out of that stuff before I hurt anyone and now I'm a responsible law-abiding productive member of the community!

Anyway, back to Police procedures....a friend of mine is a Police Seargeant and shift supervisor. He told me that if a car chase happens, the shift supervisor makes the decision to continue the chase or not. They take into account factors such as traffic, danger to public, severity of the crime, etc and most times they will pull back and send out the Eagle chopper/set up road spikes or just take their rego and pay them a visit later for lesser infringements. Also if the offender starts driving erratically i.e. losing control - wrong side of the road etc then they would pull back. The only reason they would continue a dangerous chase is if it were a violent crime, involved firearms or a bank robery or something.

I do not agree that offenders should be chased regardless because people doing runners will do stupid things and if you keep pushing them it is only a matter of time before their luck runs out. Chases should only be pursued if the crime warrants immediate capture.

**Motu** · 14th May 2003, 17:33

I think they should change the chemicals in the spray plane and just quietly put all you Westies to sleep - trouble is,I live there too!

I think you are right about policy of pursuit,they will only continue with a dangerous one if there are other reasons to make sure they get them.But what about the Skyline at Rangiriri? the Asian lost his head completly and took out a little girl watching her dad pump up the tyres.Life is just too complicated -shoot em all!!!

**bikerboy** · 14th May 2003, 18:56

KK is right . The police were much better in the god ole days when they really knew how to keep trouble makers in line.
I' sure KK would have fit right in, maybe he's heard of them despite his youth, they were known as the gestapo.

ops:

**Kwaka-Kid** · 14th May 2003, 19:53

hahaha yes yes yes! :P no. lol

bare in mind im a lost little 17yo @ that stage where he doesnt just want his opinion heard but actioned on! :P hahaha f-in teenagers eh? who wants em.

**merv** · 14th May 2003, 19:54

One of the reports I read said the biker was known to the Police so really there was no need to chase him. Maybe he was a druggie or something but if he was known to them, then surely they just need to note the offence with witness help for statements and then turn up at his house later and arrest him. The chase also shows the natural animal instinct of the cop - like a tiger - to chase its prey. You just gotta watch yankee action movies with chase scenes to show how stupid they can get when everyone's adrenalin runs high - usually they end up with multiple wrecks and everyone wondering what happened. The cops need to learn to control themselves and stay calm. The young girl in the Honda Civic did not deserve this and some of the blame has to rest with the cops as they caused the (animal) biker to run harder, just like a cornered animal will attack and run.

**wkid_one** · 14th May 2003, 21:25

All I can say is that they must have had the rego - so why pursue the rider?

This is a typical example of the maverick, gung ho police force we have at the moment. It is also an example of the effects of setting a target on the number of contacts police must make. I ask this question - had the policeman not had the pressure to make 3 contacts an hour - would he have pursued the rider - or just taken the rego and driven straight to the riders house and waited for him to come home?? Maybe a reason, maybe not - we'll never know, but it makes sense. Instead two people are dead and one in hospital and three families devastated - not to mention the police man and his family.

Are the contacts per hour forcing our police force not only to be more mercenary about issuing tickets - but also being more hot-headed about doing it? Had the policeman chasing the rider been reaching his quota? Was he under pressure that day cause there weren't many tickets to issue? So many questions - none of them good for the quota system.

Also - if the chase went over 40km - why was the radio not employed to get cars blocking all possible exits and just wait for him to come to them rather than chasing him? It appears stupid to me that the police called off the chase only when the riders riding became eratic - but didn't pull back when it was too fast?

**SPman** · 14th May 2003, 22:51

Police hotheaded? - never! Theyre all sober responsible rational sensitive human beans! Aren't they? Why.Mildred and I were just discussing this over our Horlicks. They'd never chase a poor person for so long for no good reason!............

They are actually having trouble with recruitment - mainly attitude! (surprise, surprise!) My cozzy says that well over half the recruits these days have macho, ego, problems, and we're sure starting to see it now. It used to be tolerable (just), now........................

**What?** · 15th May 2003, 08:31

Originally posted by SPman
My cozzy says that well over half the recruits these days have macho, ego, problems, and we're sure starting to see it now. It used to be tolerable (just), now........................

And that is why the zero-tolerance policy is set: because it allows these guys to be robots. If they are not expected by their controllers to use any discretion, then there is no need for them to have the ability to use discretion. This in turn means it is easier to select new recruits, which is a biggie to the bosses as all the good cops are getting pissed off and leaving. Remember back before the last general election, the Labour party promised more front-line police?? It seems the promise was Quantity, not Quality!

**Nouseforaname** · 15th May 2003, 18:08

Unless we were there then we do not know the full circumstances... it's all just speculation, and assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. Sure the police give you tickets and you get pissed off, but hey, there just doing their job. If my house gets robbed or i get beaten up or sumthing, then the first person i will call is the police.

So i cop tries to pull over a bike and he does a runner, why should the cop just not bother to persue him, obviously this bike rider has something to hide..... how does the cop know that his biker hasnt just commited a robbery or even just murdered someone... he dosnt, so he has to give chase.

Straight up.... the bike rider had something to hide and gased it, the cop did his job................

maybe the chase should have been called off earlier, that way a poor family wouldnt be grieving the dead daughter, sister, neice, etc right now.

Just look at it this way.... how would you feel if somebody who was close to you was murdered, the police knew who did it because they have been following him from the crime scene, but then the police call off the chase and the little f$%ker rides off into the sunset after killing somebody you loved.

As i said, lots of speculation.

**Marmoot** · 15th May 2003, 19:18

Endless discussion...and probably fruitless. Not to mention the potential to divide our society into pro and contra, starting a friction. Is that what the dead deserve? If it is, then they died for nothing.

I'd say this thing happens all the time. It is just a reminder about how animal we are. Not just bikers, druggies, but also police. Human is born in love with speed. Did you like it when your dad swoop you around when you were small? Did you like to play swing back then? Or running around in the field? Why?

BECAUSE THEY WERE YOUR FREEDOM! adrenaline rush and speed are only factor.

The dead rider was guilty. He was probably doing drug run. Or he was probably just enjoying his adrenaline. Whatever it is, he was guilty for endangering public.

But, on the other hand, the chasing cop is guilty as well. Why? He was probably doing his job. But he was probably enjoying the adrenaline as well. There is no telling. All we know is, he was guilty for being a factor in the chase. Poking a cornered snake is not exactly a wise idea.

So what?

What we need is better quality control for police officers. They have to be better prepared mentally to encounter these sort of situation, to not be trapped in their own enjoyment, but to be able to excercise proper caution and procedures! That's what we need.

Forget the law. It is already as good as it gets. All we need is BETTER IMPLEMENTATION of the law!

--------------------------

You can't fight fire with fire. You'll only end up with too much fire.

**SPman** · 15th May 2003, 20:15

Just a thought -

How much of a influence in the decision to run is due to the "exceed 50K over the limit and lose your license on the spot" law?

If I was clocked 50 over in the middle of nowhere at night (or day), it would be a serious factor in my consideration ....to run or no!

**Coldkiwi** · 16th May 2003, 12:38

good point... its easy to get 50kph over the limit (whatever that may be) on a 600+cc bike so if the roads are suitable, you'd have to say that the odds of that 50kph being increased to 100kph or more for someone who's freaked at being pinged are pretty good... 'if i'm gonna run I'd better run fast!'

I understood that the cops only knew of the biker when they saw him speeding? didn't think there was any suggestion of prior criminal activity?

**merv** · 16th May 2003, 14:20

I think the quote was something along the lines of "he was known to the police" i.e. a regular is my guess. Also reports had it he was first spotted doing about 130 - 140 and when the cops chased him he took off. Not sure if that was in a 50 or 100 zone in the first place.