Police working to a quota?? Surely not...

**Swoop** · 4th July 2006, 13:30

Originally Posted by hsvboy06

Simply, if you have an accident, the faster you are going, the more it's going to hurt.

Not necessarily. There are many factors to be considered with the physics of a crash.

Avoiding the crash in the first place comes down to the individuals skills.
This is why you see some types of people riding in races, others who ride to a venue to watch others racing, and those who stay home and watch the race on tv.
Not everyone is able to perform at the "racers" level.
The wise person knows their skills and their limits. Once again the stated speed limit is not a factor. Some people need to only drive at 50kph while others are safer at a different speed.

**hsvboy06** · 4th July 2006, 13:43

This is going to be my last post in this thread - I really do have work to do. It's been fun, though!

Originally Posted by Swoop

The wise person knows their skills and their limits. Once again the stated speed limit is not a factor.

Does the wise person know the skills and limits of every other person on the road? And every pedestrian that might walk into the road? You are at their mercy.
Finally, I honestly believe that speed differential is a key consideration, and therefore the posted speed limit is a factor because that is the speed at which most people (supposedly) are travelling.

**Swoop** · 4th July 2006, 13:47

Originally Posted by hsvboy06

Does the wise person know the skills and limits of every other person on the road? And every pedestrian that might walk into the road? You are at their mercy.

This is why you keep your eyes peeled and look for hazards coming up, the faster you are going the further you need to be looking. Once again, ride/drive to your abilities.

**eliot-ness** · 4th July 2006, 14:56

Like a few others on this forum I was lucky enough to ride in a period when the only speed limit, 50ks, was in built up areas. Outside these areas you were only limited by the size of your bike or your abilities. Do I feel safer now, traveling in endless lines of traffic, all doing the same speed? Not at all. I now have to concentrate, not only on what's happening up front, but also, to make sure I'm not the meat in the sandwich, keeping an eye on the guy behind and hoping he's doing the same thing. The only way to run traffic in close proximity is on rails, and, from today's news, even that has it's problems. It is no coincidence that the advent of speed cameras coincided with the introduction of draconian speed limits. Politicians saw the monetary value in speeding fines immediately and after a year of testing in urban areas blanket limits were imposed. Now, despite massive advances in vehicle safety, speeds that were considered safe seventy years ago are now, so we are informed, suicidal, and the cause of most road deaths. I don't consider myself to be a fast rider but when I come up to a log jam of traffic I get to the front as quickly as possible and find myself a clear space to ride in. It's a method that's kept me accident free for over fifty years and I'm not about to change on the whim of some politician. Incidentally, my last ticket was 1988, in a car. Last one on a bike, 1973, so I don't have a personal axe to grind.

**Lou Girardin** · 4th July 2006, 15:38

Originally Posted by spudchucka

So what is the answer?

I'm quite satisfied that if the cops weren't out there enforcing speed limits and other road rules the road tolls would be a hell of a lot worse than they are now.

However, the cops, govt & LTNZ are going to have to find something else to blame it on soon, rather than just speed, because the average driver HAS defineately slowed down a great deal over the last few years.

Well, the greatest drop in the road toll came over a period when the cops were being criticised for not doing enough traffic enforcement, 1990 - 1999.
Why don't you all go back to crime fighting for a year or 5 and we'll see what happens.
This is NZ, the sociological lab rats for the world.

**Lou Girardin** · 4th July 2006, 15:39

Originally Posted by spudchucka

It is a fundamental problem in applying business principals to the day to day operation of a govt agency that is in effect a pseudo military organisation. In other words..... its a cluster fuck.

Yep, but we're the ones getting it in the arse.

**Lou Girardin** · 4th July 2006, 15:44

Originally Posted by hsvboy06

The only thing that will reduce the road toll is if everyone learns to drive/ride within the limits of their vehicle, the road, the conditions and their abilities.

That's what I do, it's worked so far. Speed limits don't factor into it for me.

**Lou Girardin** · 4th July 2006, 15:46

Originally Posted by hsvboy06

Finally, I honestly believe that speed differential is a key consideration, and therefore the posted speed limit is a factor because that is the speed at which most people (supposedly) are travelling.

So you'll be lobbying for strict enforcement against those people travelling too slow?

**James Deuce** · 4th July 2006, 15:55

Originally Posted by hsvboy06

Does the wise person know the skills and limits of every other person on the road? And every pedestrian that might walk into the road? You are at their mercy.

You're at their mercy anyway. All the time. It doesn't matter what vehicle you are in or on. You are at the mercy of everyone you share the road with.

Any speed over 20kph has the potential to be instantly fatal for a road user not protected by a metal cage given the "right" set of circumstances, therefore the only "safe" upper speed limit for cyclists and motorcyclists is 20kph.

If you really feel that way, stop riding bikes, because your personal philisophy doesn't support their use.

**Finn** · 4th July 2006, 16:07

Originally Posted by spudchucka

I'm quite satisfied that if the cops weren't out there enforcing speed limits and other road rules the road tolls would be a hell of a lot worse than they are now.

However, the cops, govt & LTNZ are going to have to find something else to blame it on soon, rather than just speed, because the average driver HAS defineately slowed down a great deal over the last few years.

What crock of shit Potatohead. Your two sentences contradict each other for a start.

I think you're another example of an institutionalised public servant who's starting to believe the shit they brainwash you with. MUST ISSUE MORE TICKETS, MUST ISSUE MORE TICKETS... The road toll is on the increase. The revenue campaign has failed. Everybody knows that, it's just a convenient way of gathering more tax.

Sweden and a couple of neighbouring countries are INCREASING speed limits due to the safety advances in cars. Yes, that's INCREASING, in some freeways it's up to 130kph.

Fuck I'm sick of narrow minded, neanderthal, island thinking.

**The_Dover** · 4th July 2006, 16:11

Originally Posted by Finn

Fuck I'm sick of narrow minded, neanderthal, island thinking.

Baaaa baaaaa.

**Swoop** · 4th July 2006, 16:47

I wonder why Australia (Qld) has speed limits of 110kph on the freeways and 60kph in residential areas???

Haven't they heard that speed kills?

**spudchucka** · 4th July 2006, 16:55

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

Well, the greatest drop in the road toll came over a period when the cops were being criticised for not doing enough traffic enforcement, 1990 - 1999.
Why don't you all go back to crime fighting for a year or 5 and we'll see what happens.
This is NZ, the sociological lab rats for the world.

The only reason the cops didn't enforce traffic in the early 90's is because of the merger, nobody wanted to be a snake and the snakes that were forced to become cops largely didn't like what they were doing either. I wasn't a cop during this time but from what I've been told, this is what it was like. Igor is an old timer, I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.

It wouldn't worry me at all if the cops decided to take a break from road policing for 5 years, it would, as you say, be interesting to see what happens over that time and the measures that would be put in place to clean up the mess that would result.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...?t=6780&page=6

Post 82 shows a graph indicating road deaths between 1990 - 2004, after a spike in 1991 the trend has been downwards, (92, 93, 94). The graph also says that targeted enforcement, compulsary breath testing and speed cameras were introduced during the same period.

So were the cops really doing nothing in the 90's or were they putting things in place that have impacted on the road toll? Perhaps 400 - 450 road deaths a year is the best we can ever expect and its a waste of resources to try to reduce it any further? But should we stop doing what we are doing just because the likelyhood of improving on the status quo is minimal? I don't see it that way.