Death Penalty...

[Ixion]

Oakie, dont hate me, but I do not make that distinction when it comes to the situation of repeated violent/sexual offenders, if they are mentally ill to the point of this level of danger then the same thing applies IMO.
Society is better off without them, we do not seem to keep them locked up well enough or long enough to make the rest of us safe. We cannot keep them medicated effectively, and ultimately they WILL kill, rape etc, given the chance without remorse or restraint.

Well, it would be a very small percentage of the most deranged people to whom that would apply. Mental illness is an illness, a very good person could suffer from it (wasn't Janet Frame mentally ill?). Not really different from physical illness IMHO. A person who kills someone under a delusion is not necessarily wicked, just sick.

Of couse, a person can be mentally ill AND wicked, and often, perhaps, the illness may be used as an excuse for the wickedness.

[Grahameeboy]

Well, it would be a very small percentage of the most deranged people to whom that would apply. Mental illness is an illness, a very good person could suffer from it (wasn't Janet Frame mentally ill?). Not really different from physical illness IMHO. A person who kills someone under a delusion is not necessarily wicked, just sick.

Of couse, a person can be mentally ill AND wicked, and often, perhaps, the illness may be used as an excuse for the wickedness.

Exactly why the death penalty is wrong.........mistakes will be made

[Paul in NZ]

Weeeelllllll...

How about a points system like with your license?

Crimes attract a certain number of demerit points and as your points go up you loose increasing 'benefits' of society? Get 500 points and you are no longer eligible for unemployment etc. Points get taken off for getting a job and staying in that job.

Maybe, the points can be used as a sentece multiplier? ie - Get done for a crime and you already have X points your setence gets multiplied by a certain % with that increased portion NOT eligible for parole. A jury need not be aware of the points accrued BUT repeat crimes would have consequences.

Ultimately, get enough points and .... pfft...

Cheers

[98tls]

do you think a person who murders someone whilst mentally ill can be made umm call it well again....not having a crack...you seem informed so would like your opinion.

[Grahameeboy]

Weeeelllllll...

How about a points system like with your license?

Crimes attract a certain number of demerit points and as your points go up you loose increasing 'benefits' of society? Get 500 points and you are no longer eligible for unemployment etc. Points get taken off for getting a job and staying in that job.

Maybe, the points can be used as a sentece multiplier? ie - Get done for a crime and you already have X points your setence gets multiplied by a certain % with that increased portion NOT eligible for parole. A jury need not be aware of the points accrued BUT repeat crimes would have consequences.

Ultimately, get enough points and .... pfft...

Cheers

Do not pass go or collect the dole....I actually like this idea..........

[paturoa]

Yes for me OR lock em up for life.

If its death then there are too many holes in the current system and a much higher standard end to end of the process is required.

I suspect one of the reasons that the current process under performs is because we don't have the death penalty.

There have been several posts about the cost of appeals etc, OK so spend that money on truly locking them up for life.

Plan B for me has always been to outsource the prisions to Indonesia.

[Grahameeboy]

do you think a person who murders someone whilst mentally ill can be made umm call it well again....not having a crack...you seem informed so would like your opinion.

I guess the answer is 'yes' with the right treatment............however, we need a better probationary system first as they do get the rehab wrong sometimes

[Indiana_Jones]

If they can't play by the rules, send them off the field, permantly......MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

-Indy

[Paul in NZ]

do you think a person who murders someone whilst mentally ill can be made umm call it well again....not having a crack...you seem informed so would like your opinion.

I don't know - I have a sister that works in the dangerous end of this field and I will ask her but seriously, there is mentally ill and then there is bad.

I look at the case of the edwards brothers. The guy was a bloody serial rapist. Can he be rehabilitated?? Maybe, but would you take the risk with your sister?

I'm not talking about absolutes here. There has to be discretionary sentencing 'cos everyone deserves a chance 'cos everyone stuffs up.... But.. stuffing up multiple times... hmmmmm

[Oakie]

Oakie, dont hate me, but I do not make that distinction when it comes to the situation of repeated violent/sexual offenders, if they are mentally ill to the point of this level of danger then the same thing applies IMO.
Society is better off without them, we do not seem to keep them locked up well enough or long enough to make the rest of us safe. We cannot keep them medicated effectively, and ultimately they WILL kill, rape etc, given the chance without remorse or restraint.

It's OK. I know what you're saying. Certainly society is better of without some people and sometimes I have issues with the financial resources we at work use on people who will never contibute to society. However it's hard to see putting someone to death as 'punishment' as being the right thing to do when A) the person has no control over whatever it is that makes them do bad shit ... or B) when they have no comphension of why society demands they be punished. Admittedly there are probably a lot fewer people who fall into this category than fall into the 'just a bad bastard' list and I have a lot less sympathy for those people who know the difference between right and wrong and then CHOOSE to go and do some bad shit.

[Oakie]

Weeeelllllll...

How about a points system like with your license?

Ultimately, get enough points and .... pfft...

Cheers

'Three strikes and you're out' is what they call it in the States isn't it?

[98tls]

I don't know - I have a sister that works in the dangerous end of this field and I will ask her but seriously, there is mentally ill and then there is bad

Thats it in a nutshell for me....there are some people who are just bad full stop.they will never be anything else..throw money.time anything you like at them but it wont work...dont know why they are that way but they dont give a shit about anything or anyone...lock them up for as long as you like it doesnt matter when they get out they go doing there crap again..the worst thing is nobody has any idea whos life there going to fuck up next...yours,mine the old lady down the road who knows and i dont think people should have to live with these fucken time bombs running around..anyone who flat out says no to the death penalty how would you feel going around to see your grandmother and finding her naked,raped and lying in a pool of her own blood beaten to death...i say some people dont deserve the gift of life.

[The_Dover]

Send them to Australia I say.

[MD]

What's the worth of a human life?

Absolutely nothing according to our ever increasing crop of murderers. They set the price by their own actions so why should we (law abiding society) be expected to value their lives higher than they value ours?
Statistics have proven that executed murderers do not re-offend. No other solution to date has produced such a sucess rate.
Obviously to avoid the slightest possibility of an innocent being wrongfully executed extreme conditions would be required before death was administered. Or we can continue to be nice and let good people die each year at the hands of repeat offenders released on parole. Ummm, tough choice that.

[Swoop]

Send them to Australia I say.

We already do. Bondi Beach is our largest hell hole after Mt Eden.

Discouraging offenders from repeating their crimes is a major area. So many get out and "do something" that gets them straight back inside, because they actually want to be in there.

Hmmm, I believe the gallows is still in storage at Mt Eden...

Perhaps a form of public humiliation like the town stocks should be re-introduced? 5 days and nights locked in them with the public allowed to come along and throw rotten food at the offender???