Death Penalty...

[Indiana_Jones]

Bring back capital punishment and hard labour

That is all lol

-Indy

[ManDownUnder]

this is getting quite interesting...i can see your point and you make it well but what is to be gained by keeping alive the worst of the worst....

Because we're not barbarians. We grew out of that, evolved away from it a a society.

Society can either lose some money keeping them alive (and i I had my way it would not be a lot of money)... or we can resolve to stoop to their level... using their actions and methods to achieve the ends of society.

It's like smacking a kid for hitting. Kind of ironic really. I used to do it - didn't see the problem till Wolf challenged me on it.

I owe wolf for that - it's called growing up. Sometimes we all have to sit down, shut up and be prepared to listen and learn from those around us. It's amasing how many don't

[yungatart]

There are a whole host of things that would help - in the long term, however we are an "instant" society and if it requires real change with precious little in the way of results in the short term, people generally just do not want to know.
Bring back a values based education system.
Elevate the heterosexual marriage and family to its rightful place in society.
Parenting classes for all those under, say 25.
"Broken windows" policy on all petty crime.
Give men back their manhood.
Social welfare benefits to be a temporary short term measure.
Make criminals work to benefit society.
Night courts all over NZ to reduce the back log in the justice system - so criminals are more swiftly dealt with.
Throw out PC b/s.. in govt depts and education institutions.
Have a bill of Human Rights and ditch the Treaty for good.
More police on the beat, in our neighbourhoods, suburbs and cities.
More truant officers to ensure kids go to school.
Make parents responsible for the crimes their kids commit.
Teach kids/people that for every right you have, there is a responsibility that goes with it.


These things will make a difference - alas - I don't think any of it wiill happen in my life time... sigh

[avgas]

Peter Ellis didn't shoot anyone. He's a victim of the myth that all homosexual men are paedophiles.

I've yet to hear a decent explanation of why David Bain was seen delivering newspapers when he was supposed to be shooting his family. The point is never debated, the witness who saw him is dead, and the Police just sneer and curl their lip when it's brought up.

But I guess it's OK if we'd executed him a few years ago, because we would have killed some bad guys in the meantime, even if there was still an element of doubt in the Bain case.

But we arent discussing how flawed the justice system is.....assuming it wasnt flawed....would the death penalty be a suitable (repeat offender) punishment?

[Ixion]

It is the business of government to make the tough decisions. Those decisions should be made objectively, and unswayed by emotion.

In any society there are some people who are actively detrimental to society. Not only do they not contribute , they actively drag down society , they make that society a worse place to be (here, distinguishing from the sick or old, who may make no contribution, but do not negatively impact on society).

Such people should be eliminated. Quickly , effectively and unemotionally.

That elimination may be by a death penalty, or by the old Greek idea of ostracism. If they can find somewhere else to go to, fine, go, and never return. Otherwise, a bullet.

This is not by way of a judgement on any particular crime, and it may well be that commission of any one crime, in isolation, does not merit condemnation as unworthy. It is a judgement upon the whole of the person. Nor is that condemnation a monetary based one - it is not relevant whether the perosn costs society money to keep alive or not (many handicapped people may make no financial contricution , and indeed cost society money, but be worthy and even admirable members of society - Stephen Hawking is an extreme example. Here, we distinguish from the eugenics ideas of (eg) the Nazis)

Those less vile, but still below the standard that society demands may be sent to labour or re-education camps to show whether they are capable of redemption. Or not.

[Ixion]

,,

I'm not suggesting we go back to the 1950s ,,..

Why not ?

[98tls]

[QUOTE=ManDownUnder]Because we're not barbarians. We grew out of that, evolved away from it a a society. nice sentiment but fact is there are some people in our society that havent/never will evolve and therefore leave us no option other than to treat them as barbarians with barbarian methods that they will understand,

[avgas]

Bring back a values based education system. - or put value on the education given. None of this "Im sorry you do not have the experience" b/s
Elevate the heterosexual marriage and family to its rightful place in society. - i.e. not "Pre-Divorce", like the opposite of Lotto, where you loose half your stuff.
Parenting classes for all those under, say 25. - Allready there, my sister did it
Give men back their manhood. - Not ever going to happen, becuase this was taken by women and they are not going to give it back.
Have a bill of Human Rights and ditch the Treaty for good. - Nah the opposite, adopt maori culture to the point so that no-one-owns-nothing-they-didnt-earn.
More police on the beat, in our neighbourhoods, suburbs and cities. The beat is pretty big these days
More truant officers to ensure kids go to school. - No, how about more respect for what schools teach, NO School, Shit Job.
Teach kids/people that for every right you have, there is a responsibility that goes with it. - To hard, easier to take rights away and give them back when they will actually use them properly.

[muzz]

Well Paul I dont have the answers either, other to say that there is a difference between disipline and abuse. Being kicked in the pants or kicking somebody in the pants isnt a bad thing but people turn the other way because they dont want to be acused of abuse. and the whole P C bullshit has everyone scared to help each other out.

[The_Dover]

Can't we just send them to Australia?

[ManDownUnder]

Give men back their manhood. - Not ever going to happen, becuase this was taken by women and they are not going to give it back.

They can't keep it if you don't let them.

I'm not saying defeminise women, and I'm not saying be a bastard. I'm just saying be a man. Recognise there are differences and accept that.

Act accordingly.

If they think you're wrong - whoever "they" may be - that's their problem

[98tls]

Bringing in National service or whatever its called wouldnt be a bad thing i reckon..a year in the army at 18 or so wouldnt do anyone any harm....Fuck im starting to sound like my bloody grandfather

[ManDownUnder]

Bringing in National service or whatever its called wouldnt be a bad thing i reckon..a year in the army at 18 or so wouldnt do anyone any harm....Fuck im starting to sound like my bloody grandfather

You're right on both counts. Your Grandfather sounds like a good man

[Lou Girardin]

Can't we just send them to Australia?

You mean a crim swap?
It could work, their crims are probably a better class than ours.

[Macktheknife]

But we arent discussing how flawed the justice system is.....assuming it wasnt flawed....would the death penalty be a suitable (repeat offender) punishment?

EXACTLY! this is really pretty simple guys n gals, multiple repeat offenders are communicating clearly with us, we are just not listening clearly. They do not want to accept our laws, morals, standards etc, thats fine;
they have had opportunity to change;
they know what they do is wrong due to earlier consequences;
They will not contribute to society in a constructive manner;
They actually joke and laugh about the fact that society is stupid to sustain them!
I think that this is a clear indication that what we are doing is wrong. As I said in another thread, repeat violent and sexual offenders should be volunteered for organ donation and removed from the society they have refused to respect.
No discussion, no debate, no possibility of getting the wrong/innocent person. 3rd or 4th offence with sexual or very violent offenders, say good night you are outta here.
Put the rest of them into productive labour programmes and then suddenly you will find that repeat offending goes down quickly. So do the costs of imprisoning the bastards, I would vote for any party that had this as a policy and I think many others would too.