A time to stop complaining?

[ManDownUnder]

Different times, different enemy, different motivation.
Merkins do better when they help out in other peoples wars rather than start their own.

I think we all do Lou. a War offshore is a lot different to one at home.

[SARGE]

I'm talking about Bader-Meinhoff, Red Brigades et al. The 70's terrorists.
You know, history. The thing Merkins never learn from.

yea .. they beat them alright ..slap on the wrist .. now because of that .. the Arab fighters think its easy peasy.. they can do a few years in prison standing on thier hands ..time to cut the Cancer out once and for all man..

The Syrian Ambassador to the UN has just finished giving a speech, and walks out into the lobby where he meets President Bush. They shake hands and as they walk the Syrian says, "You know, I have just one question about what I have seen in America." President Bush says, "Well, your Excellency, anything I can do to help you, I will do." The Syrian whispers "My young son watches (and loves) this show Star Trek and in it there are Russians, and Blacks, and Asians, but never any Arabs. He is very upset. He doesn't understand why there are never any Arabs in Star Trek."

President Bush sorta chuckled and leaning toward the Syrian, whispers back, "It's because it takes place in the future....there are none left"

[Lou Girardin]

yea .. they beat them alright ..slap on the wrist ...

Seen any around?
The Basques are all that's left of those times. And it's more of a sport for them.

[Ixion]

I wish administrations would actually send letters like that one and follow through. It's great seeing tree hugging hippies put in their place.

As for Guantanamo Bay, those that are incarcerated there made a choice. They choose to act outside the rules for combatants and not be covered by the Geneva Convention. They willingly gave up their rights.

Well, that's the problem , isn't it. Nobody actually knows whether any given prisoner did or did not make such a choice, because, as Mr MDU pertinantly notes, there is no due process. The prisoners are not charged, have no opportunity to defend themselves. Basically, as far as I can determine, some US officer decides "You're a terrorist - off you go". And that's it. Now sometimes that call might be just and valid. But I would be hesitant to say that it always would be. Very hesitant indeed.

Indeed , I don't really have too much objection to Gitmo in itself. War is war. And war is hell. To the victor go the spoils , and if you're on the losing side, you can't expect too much. If the Yanks decide to shoot those they capture out of hand or throw them into prison indefinately, based on a simple resort to might is right, I'm not too inclined to get my panties in a bunch about it. I can even manage to blink an eye to the use of torture. Not a good look, but it happens , always has, always will

But I do object to the spurious pseudo-legitimacy they attempt to cast over it. It degrades the whole concept of due process.

Slight tangent, but if it was up to me all of those who criminal acts that involve severe violence, children or of a sexual nature would lose their rights as human beings. After all, if they choose to act in a way that totally disregards somebodies rights, they are choosing to give up their rights.

You'd be for removing human rights from an awful lot of our young folk then? Bearing in mind that sexual relations where either party is under 16 is a criminal act of a sexual nature? Happens a bit, I'm told.

And , until a few years ago, homosexual acts between consenting adults etc were criminal acts. And obviously of a sexual nature. Still are in a lot of places. So gays should also lose their human rights?

[Mental Trousers]

Non-concentual sexual nature.

[Lou Girardin]

Non-concentual sexual nature.

Under-age sex is deemed to be non-consensual.
That's the problems with absolutes. Everything is just so unpredictable.

[The_Dover]

And , until a few years ago, homosexual acts between consenting adults etc were criminal acts. And obviously of a sexual nature. Still are in a lot of places. So gays should also lose their human rights?

For sure.

bloody pooftas

[Mental Trousers]

Under-age sex is deemed to be non-consensual.
That's the problems with absolutes. Everything is just so unpredictable.

Under aged are also not seen/treated as adults because they're not old enough to know the consequences (among other things). Why would you treat two 13 year old kids who went at it cos they were curious the same as a 40 year old who fiddles a child? They're 2 totally different cases.

[Lou Girardin]

Under aged are also not seen/treated as adults because they're not old enough to know the consequences (among other things). Why would you treat two 13 year old kids who went at it cos they were curious the same as a 40 year old who fiddles a child? They're 2 totally different cases.

The debate was about non-consensual sex. Not kiddie fiddlers.
But if you cast your mind back a few months, you'll remember the case of a cabbie who had his licence revoked because he been convicted of under-age sex when he was 16, from memory the girl was 15.
He was most definitely treated as an adult and is paying the price 30 or 40 years later.

[Sniper]

Proberbly cause the bitch was upset he never called afterwards

[Mental Trousers]

Don't know the case sorry.

[jazbug5]

If so, it set a precedent (the cabbie) because that particular conviction is relatively common in cabbies, for the exact same reason - many men who grew up in the 50s to the 70s have a conviction for underage sex.
It doesn't affect their ability to obtain a cabbie license if it is their only conviction of that nature.

[Kickaha]

Lou, I think quite a few forget that without the Americans sticking their noses in where they allegedly shouldnt have would be speaking different langauges and abiding by different ways of life....

Please provide some examples of this and tell us what language we would be speaking?

[rogson]

Hey you young ones, and those older but too dim to remember the recent past - perhaps you should study recent history.

Unbelievable as it may seem today, the democratic world owes a big debt/thankyou to the "nasty" USA - and the imperatives that motivated them then, still apply today.

The principal failing of the current administration is the naive belief that "democracy" can be "rubber stamped" into countries and cultures that have no idea of the concept.

[jazbug5]

This would be the same 'democracy' that didn't actually vote in their own president?
I seeee.