Automatic motorcycle trannies?

[Motu]

Shit,we could go back even further to the ''Standrive'' wow,this was a gem,used on Series II Morris Oxfords too.Using some sort of centrifical clutch,I'm not sure - they had a button on the gearlever - floor for the Standard 10 and column for the Oxford - that you pressed then changed gear without a clutch.VW had a similar system a few years later.Hillmans had the Smiths Drive - an electro mechanical gearbox that died a very quick death.Rover had a ''freewheel'',a fancy version of Maori Overdrive - wind a big knob and it would coast when you throttled off,so you could make clutchless shifts....down hills in a very overweight Rover 90 with drum brakes in ''free wheel''

[pete376403]

I have a service manual for the Smiths "Easidrive" electric box. Only in England, eh? The equivalent of the hydraulic torque converter was filled with iron powder, and when magnetized it would lock the two halves together. Varying the magnetism controlled the amount of slippage. No electronics of course, all controlled by switches, relays and rheostats. Only one thing could have been worse - the same thing made by Lucas. Just as well magnetic tape cassette and mag stripe credit cards hadn't been invented at that time -one ride and everything would have been wiped.
Rootes seemed to like being at the bleeding edge of automatics - they adopted the Borg Warner 45 before anyone else, so suffered all the pain.

[vifferman]

..like a quickshifter then....

saab had a 'clutchless' manual a few years back. I wonder what happened to that. clutch was electronically operated when the gear lever was moved. I had a test drive in one, and you could shift really quickly.

And then there was a similar system fitted to the NSU Ro80 back in the 70s.
The "Selespeed" on the Fiats and Alfas is like that too.
But who here has driven a car with a Tiptronic style change? I've driven a couple, and I thought they were crap. Maybe OK on something sporty if it changed gear fairly quickly, but many of them have delay built in and end up being crap. I'd rather drive an automatic with an intelligent "Sport" mode; the last one I drove was great - it held the gears to the redline, changed down when you braked for corners, AND gave good engine braking too.

But you still can't beat a manual gearbox for truly sporting driving.

[Motu]

I've driven quite a few Triptronics,mainly Mitsis(anything is an improvement on their last auto),but also Beemers and a Jag I think - as you say,very slow,and what's the point.Drove a 2002 Colt today with a CVVT,they are getting better,but still not nice - was in a Bluebird a couple of weeks ago with a stuffed CVVT,they are like 5 grand to repair,lets let someone else do the testing.

[Two Smoker]

Ive driven a few tiptronics, all of them Mitsi's (which evidently Porsche used as a gear box......) ranging from a 2.5V6 and a couple VR-4's

i found them ok for just going around town, but no good when you really wanted to go fast, for instance in the VR-4 i hit the rev limiter and tapped the gear lever (well hit it hard coz i was going fast lol) and it didnt change up had to do it again for it too change up.....

[Kickaha]

I think there could be a case for the Tiptronic type autos we are seeing in cars these days - just a paddle to flip for up and down changes,a lockup converter could provide engine braking...you read it here first.

It's been done before of course - The auto used in BMC (Morris,Austin etc) was a full auto but also had the option of individual gear selection.I've always thought one would make a good power plant for a sidecar.

Not a tiptronic but some of the sidecar guys run pneumatic shifters,with two buttons one for up and one for down,combined with a quickshifter its a good system,but you probably can't get away with the clutchless down changes on a bike.

[F5 Dave]

I read a report of a factory rider using the Husky 430(?) auto in a swampy enduro many moons ago. He said it was like cheating.

Of course if anyone invents an efficient constantly variable gearbox able to take some power then you would run the engine at a constant efficient speed (and maybe an idle mode) then the throttle would just engage more gearing as required- fly by wire of course.

Then of course if batteries ever get feasible just go electric & junk the gearbox totally. Max torque from any revs & as much traction control as you want to program in. I’ll have mine in blue.

[merv]

Interesting Yamaha have developed the 2 Trac versions of their dirt bikes that drive the front wheel by hydraulic drive. Now that would be one way to get the fully variable drive at constant engine speed, just have a computer control the oil supply valves while the engine keeps pumping the stuff.

So far they are still using chain drive to the rear but it suggests that it would be easy to drive the back wheel hydraulically too. (Just like a lot of large machinery)

[F5 Dave]

yeah some aussie guy has been beatnig that drum for well over a decade, can't remember his name off the top of my head though. Fluid drive was all the rage on concept bike penned in the mid - late 80s

[Dr Bob]

Interesting Yamaha have developed the 2 Trac versions of their dirt bikes that drive the front wheel by hydraulic drive. Now that would be one way to get the fully variable drive at constant engine speed, just have a computer control the oil supply valves while the engine keeps pumping the stuff.

So far they are still using chain drive to the rear but it suggests that it would be easy to drive the back wheel hydraulically too. (Just like a lot of large machinery)

It wouldn't really be a completely variable drive because the pressure would be determined by the pump from the engine. The ratio between back and front could be controlled that way, but the engine speed would still determine the overall power going to the wheels. Unless there was some way to restrict etc but then we are looking at an inefficiency and there goes the idea of constant velocity for efficiency.

[merv]

yeah some aussie guy has been beatnig that drum for well over a decade, can't remember his name off the top of my head though. Fluid drive was all the rage on concept bike penned in the mid - late 80s

Better and more useful electronics probably make it more of a possibility these days.

[merv]

Unless there was some way to restrict etc but then we are looking at an inefficiency and there goes the idea of constant velocity for efficiency.

Power could still be controlled by throttle opening and stuff like that all electronically, otherwise at constant throttle opening an internal combustion engine is producing a fixed amount of power and if you didn't need that much you have to dump it into battery charge (there's another idea of course the hybrid) or waste it as heat somewhere (and that would kill efficiency). I am sure the technos can sort this out by controlling the oil valves and winding on the throttle as the load increases all by electronics.

[moko]

It'd be interesting to see one of those super scooters converted into a "real" road bike.I think itd be a hit with the commuters

I reckon that there are already "crossover" bikes,Honda Deauville 650 looks like a Scooter to me but is sold as a bike,same as that bastard ugly BMW1200 thing.Gilera do a neat little scoot called the DNA which is kind of a cross between a bike and a scoot,looks neat and a good seller.
Honda sold a 400 auto "Dream" here alongside the more normal version,the only roadtest I ever read of one said it was bloody awful to ride,I suppose it`s what you`re used to.
Scooters are massive sellers in Europe,make a lot more sense than bikes but it`s a very conservative market.

[NordieBoy]

Husky (can't spell huscqvar.....huscavar...huskqav..$%$it!)did an auto MXer back in the 70's/80's....and honda did a 400 twin auto too.....

Husky 390...

[ManDownUnder]

I quite like being in control of the changes (i.e. no automatics for me) but the idea of clutchless shifting would be worth a go... I guess.

I'd never thought of looking at a bike as having 5 controls covered with four limbs - makes me feel all... co-ordinated now!

Either that or I'll start thinking about what I'm doing, and wont be able to get the thing out of the garage to get home!
MDU