Page 1 of 10 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 150

Thread: My maori thread

  1. #1
    Join Date
    3rd November 2005 - 18:04
    Bike
    Big, black and slow
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    2,997

    My maori thread

    Many of you would have read my post about the death of another set of twins. Like the media and probably the police, I too jumped to the conclusion that it was yet another senseless death caused by a maori family of an innocent child.

    In traditional Finn style, I went for the jugular, a tad over the top. I perhaps didn’t orchestrate my thoughts very well although I do wonder if the responses would have been different if it was indeed a double murder. Possibly so.

    The problem I see is as follows;

    It's dangerous to criticize maoridom yet there are clearly huge problems here. If you want to blame someone then the Government and Tribal leaders are a good start. They have created a separatist society and have done maori a huge injustice.

    If you dare to say anything critical of Maori, charges of racism will surely follow. And therein lies part of the problem, most New Zealanders bend over backwards not to be racist or to be seen as racist.

    So for years the most egregious things have been going on in New Zealand and we pretend not to see, because if we notice and say something or try to do something about it we are intolerant racists and cultural imperialists. And if we cannot avoid noticing the blame is put not on the perpetrators but on what is ancient history now, the settlement of New Zealand over 150 years ago and the 'displacement' of Maori in that process.

    The Kahui twins murder and their families refusal to co-operate with the police may represent a tipping point. Maybe New Zealanders of all stripes and hues will take a fresh look at what it means to be a New Zealander. But I doubt it.

    A classic example is this - Iwi need more funds to fight abuse - Turia
    Maori Party co-leader Tariana Turia has lashed out at claims child abuse is part of Maori culture – but says whanau must "step up to the plate" to address the situation.

    She has also called on the Government to better fund iwi non-violence programmes, which she said had more success reducing abuse than mainstream agencies such as Child Youth and Family Services.

    Am I the only one who thinks this stinks, using the death of the twins to demand more money from the taxpayer? You could throw a billion dollars at the iwi and not a thing would change. This is proven and we’ve been doing it for years and the only thing that has happened is we get more and more of demands like Tariana's.

    It doesn't work!!!

    A recent news article - Call for utu over twins
    Even hardened criminals have been sickened by the injuries Chris and Cru Kahui suffered – they are threatening retribution against family members covering up the deaths.

    It emerged a few weeks back that Auckland gang members have warned the family to name the killer – or killers – or face retribution for bringing shame on maori.

    Auckland gang members threatening their own retribution on the killer for "bringing shame on maori". They need to take look in a mirror. They are hardly enhancing the mana of maori themselves.

    Finally the third news story that grabbed my attention was this "Texas development 'cultural theft'"

    A planned $30 million Maori-themed development in northern Texas called Kiora Park is cultural theft, maori say.

    The proposed 250-apartment development in Plano, near Dallas, is being promoted as having a New Zealand architectural theme "by incorporating elements from homes in that region".

    "We will use visual and other elements from the history and culture and maori folk art from New Zealand to produce a strong and memorable theme," the company's website says.

    The website, which has a repeated fern leaf motif, does not give details on how the maori theme will be realised.

    maori activist Ken Mair said the themed development was a form of cultural theft. He questioned whether it could also be intellectual property theft.
    "If it's clearly identified as maori and that's the foundation of where they're coming from they should have a substantial discussion with appropriate maori people, hapu, iwi, whoever, to seek our permission," he said.

    Mair said it was extremely ill-mannered to proceed without maori permission and guidance.

    Does "ill-mannered to proceed without Maori permission and guidance" translate to "hire me as a consultant"? Pay Backhanders?

    From the same story there is a sign of common sense and a glimmer of hope from Alan Duff. Author and Books In Homes founder Alan Duff said Maori had bigger problems than concerns about cultural branding.

    The US housing development was not offensive, he said.

    "What's offensive to maori is those (Kahui) twins getting killed and the family not talking to police. That reflects badly on maori and that's what we should worry about.

    "Greece is not up in arms because Las Vegas did Ancient Greece themes in their casinos. Why are we so precious about things that don't count?"
    Perhaps Maori should look to Alan Duff for leadership rather than Tariana Turias or Ken Mairs.

    Stop holding hands out for money and get on with fixing up the problems in their communities.

    I don’t have all the answers, but I won’t sit on my hands and be quiet about it either. I'm sick of having this bullshit thrown in my face in just about everything I do in life. I really feel that NZ has lost it’s identity and values. I would like to see the maori people succeed in NZ as a whole as they play an important role in our identity. This will require HUGE changes in thinking and action. I’m just not sure “we” have the balls or dare I say it, really give a shit about our country anymore. I'm sure that maori's that are contributing members of our society are not very happy with the status quo.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    21st October 2002 - 11:00
    Bike
    CharlesidealOB
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    1,950
    Blog Entries
    10
    You don't actually expect me to read all that. I get bored after only a couple of sentences. Very short attention span unless there's naked girlies involved.

    Let's try and keep this civil.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    3rd September 2005 - 08:19
    Bike
    .
    Location
    .
    Posts
    3,712
    Are you running for fuckin parliament or something mate? Trying to get a few votes?

    Or was it just a quiet morning in the office?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    19th November 2003 - 18:45
    Bike
    KTM 690 DUKE R
    Location
    Auckland - unavoidably...
    Posts
    6,422
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post

    Does "ill-mannered to proceed without Maori permission and guidance" translate to "hire me as a consultant"? Pay Backhanders?
    Yes.


    Its also in the RMA where Maori are to be treated not as equals but as a higher authority than the interested parties in any debate. One "consultation" which is viewed as the benchmark has taken 9, yes thats 9 long years of consultation and they are yet to reach an agrreement. God knows how much all this consulting costs but what stinks is often the people affected are left out of the consultation process as the Maori have to be consulted by law no matter what, who cares what any one else thinks be it they white, brown, yellow or whatever.

    They need to get over the fact that other races settled here and start living as part of society rather than acting against it.

    Hell they weren't even the first ones here, yet alone the fact they hardly occupied any of the country but somehow it ALL belongs to them.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    20th August 2003 - 10:00
    Bike
    'o6 Spewzooki Banned it.
    Location
    Costa del Nord
    Posts
    6,553
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    A planned $30 million Maori-themed development in northern Texas called Kiora Park is cultural theft, maori say.

    The proposed 250-apartment development in Plano, near Dallas, is being promoted as having a New Zealand architectural theme "by incorporating elements from homes in that region".


    From the same story there is a sign of common sense and a glimmer of hope from Alan Duff. Author and Books In Homes founder Alan Duff said Maori had bigger problems than concerns about cultural branding.

    The US housing development was not offensive, he said.

    "What's offensive to maori is those (Kahui) twins getting killed and the family not talking to police. That reflects badly on maori and that's what we should worry about.

    Likewise, is Italy demanding a kickback for all the Tuscan? style homes that have been built? It could be an opportunity for a back-hander to me as a cultural advisor. After all, I'm more Italian than nearly all Maoris are Maori.

    Alan Duff is the one voice of sanity in the entire Maori grievance industry. Which is why they try to marginalise him, calling him a white Maori. It seems mirrors are conspicuously lacking in their society.

    You hit the nail on the head yet again Finn, are you going to run for President of the Republic of Outerroa?
    Speed doesn't kill people.
    Stupidity kills people.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    3rd May 2005 - 11:51
    Bike
    XR200
    Location
    Invercargill - Arrowtn
    Posts
    1,395
    Good post Finn and also good that you recognised the earlier twins thread was a mistake - by most of us.

    Maori participation in RMA decisions is just a cross we have to bear because of the new recognition of the lawfulness of the Treaty. Of course the Treaty itself is a very short, even vague document which is being reinterpreted as each day passes.

    Like it or not, the consequence of the Treaty is that we live in a duel culture - two peoples. We can't ignore Maori and neither we should. Maori culture is unique to NZ and we actually embrace it eg. the Haka. It is the one thing which sets us apart from Aussies, Brits, Americans etc.

    But at the moment any statement critical of Maori is verbotten - unless you are Maori. And even then people like Alan Duff are ignored or dismissed as Uncle Toms ie. black outside, white inside.

    The only way to change is to speak up - but in a calm manner. Abuse, shouting, and insults just sidetrack any useful discussion.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    9th October 2003 - 11:00
    Bike
    2022 BMW RnineT Pure
    Location
    yes
    Posts
    14,591
    Blog Entries
    3
    Irrespective of the perceived right or wrong of the situation, Maori are a separate legal entity in NZ.

    The "colonial" (too much baggage in that word) Government never ever allowed Maori to establish a "Sovereign" (too much baggage again) Maori nation, or even a loose "nationwide" tribal affiliation, and rather than the partnership promised by the Treaty of Waitangi, average Kiwi have actively encouraged separatism, not inclusiveness, since the 1840s. To the point of allowing the NZ Company to encourage the British Crown to wage war on tribes that didn't take Tainui's path.

    The solution is for every NZer to actively participate in including Maori as part of NZ. Not defining them by skin colour, lack of tecnological facitlity, perceived cultural shortcomings, and the actions of a few gang members and "brown trash" familes. Stamping your foot because "they" don't see the world the way you do and that they are a little pissed off that it took 150 years for the local"colonial" (horrible word) Government to say, "ahh oops, yes, we didn't really stand by our word, did we?", isn't going to do anything except fuel the grievance industry some more.

    As for the comments about the RMA decision making process being dictated to by Maori, I very rarely see Kiwis stand up and make constructive critical approaches to changing a process. They'll take 3 electoral terms to come to grips with the fact that they don't like the way things are going, change the Government by a landslide, and then go, "oops we didn't think you give us what we asked for."

    Then vote that Government out in a term. Inarticulate expressions of voter rage aren't particularly constructive.

    I don't understand what drives your fear of Maoridom Finn. Are you expressing a desire to address issues that you believe are preventing NZ from becoming a nation of one people, joined by differences, rather than separated by historical events? Or do you just want a country that subscribes to the theory that the only "decent" culture is one that subscribes to "traditional" Western values of self-aggrandisment and wealth at all costs? Of perpetual wealth based class struggle?

    I don't like the path that NZ has taken in the last 20 years. Removing imagination from the classroom, dictating an education process that feeds a particular system of ideology. Ultimately it leads to ignorant reactionary pogroms of the different and radical "elements" in society. A system that has at it's core the "fact" that Maori are to blame for everything that is wrong with NZ,a nd the acquisition of more stuff is all that you need for a happy life.


    If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?



  8. #8
    Join Date
    1st November 2005 - 08:18
    Bike
    F-117.
    Location
    Banana Republic of NZ
    Posts
    7,048
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston001 View Post
    we live in a duel culture
    An interesting freudian slip.
    TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”

  9. #9
    Join Date
    24th June 2004 - 17:27
    Bike
    So old you won't care
    Location
    Kapiti
    Posts
    7,880
    Well when you put it like that...

    You are partly correct. I totally agree with the majority of your post and applaud you for posting something thoughtfull and constructive.

    You may be correct about tipping points and I definately agree that this is an issue for all of NZ to look at if we (the tax payer) are being asked to fund action. I'm not 100% sure this is a distinctly maori problem, I think it's a problem faced by the 'underclasses' in many modern economies.

    In south american the modernisation of the economy has widened the gulf between rich and poor and caused havock with violence towards women and children escallating out of control, all in the name of the global economy.

    People need jobs and self respect and we are looking at a generation that has neither. These are the children of the children of the welfare state and they know nothing of responsibility, respect or pride in work and I have no idea how to change that.

    Anyway - Finn - I'm impressed!! Well done.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    3rd September 2005 - 08:19
    Bike
    .
    Location
    .
    Posts
    3,712
    Can you cut to the chase jim2?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    19th November 2003 - 18:45
    Bike
    KTM 690 DUKE R
    Location
    Auckland - unavoidably...
    Posts
    6,422
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post

    The "colonial" (too much baggage in that word) Government never ever allowed Maori to establish a "Sovereign" (too much baggage again) Maori nation, or even a loose "nationwide" tribal affiliation, and rather than the partnership promised by the Treaty of Waitangi, average Kiwi have actively encouraged separatism, not inclusiveness, since the 1840s. To the point of allowing the NZ Company to encourage the British Crown to wage war on tribes that didn't take Tainui's path.
    That maybe true. But it was a few hundred years ago. They are now a full part of this nation and have the same rights as every other NZ citizen, but because of past errors they are now above normal citizens. Hell they have their own special MP's. Do you see any other race that is an integral part of NZ and our culture having its own MPs? Scots, Irish, English MP's even chinese MP's cause hell chinese have been here for hundreds of years as well and where is their voice.

    Why should the nation be held at ransom for something that happened so long ago? All treaty settlements should be cleared, settled not just written off, and then NZ should think of writing a new Treaty, scrapping the old one, and becoming a nature of "one people" not us and them as it is now.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    3rd November 2005 - 18:04
    Bike
    Big, black and slow
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    2,997
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post

    I don't understand what drives your fear of Maoridom Finn. Are you expressing a desire to address issues that you believe are preventing NZ from becoming a nation of one people, joined by differences, rather than separated by historical events? Or do you just want a country that subscribes to the theory that the only "decent" culture is one that subscribes to "traditional" Western values of self-aggrandisment and wealth at all costs? Of perpetual wealth based class struggle?
    I think I've explained the issues I have with maoridom in my post quite clearly. Culture is fine and good. We should value it, just not with money.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    8th August 2004 - 23:11
    Bike
    1987 Nifty 50
    Location
    Ashhurst
    Posts
    1,492
    Well thought out and put Mr Finn. Would it be amiss of me to say that Labour seems to be a supporter of the grievance industry also?
    "Not one day that we are here on this earth has been promised to us, so make the most of every day as if it was your last, and every breath ,as if it were the same"

  14. #14
    Join Date
    26th February 2005 - 15:10
    Bike
    Ubrfarter V Klunkn,ffwabbit,Petal,phoebe
    Location
    In the cave of Adullam
    Posts
    13,624
    Would someone care to define "maori" ? Technically, I'm a Maori (and , no, I'm not enrolling on the poxy Maori roll so there can be more Maori seats, so stop asking me). As much Maori as most of 'em anyway. Except a hundred or more years ago the great greats decided that living in a raupo shack on kumaras and mooching for handouts was a pretty shit life and figured they could beat the white man at his own game.

    And I know heaps of people that are the same. They're as maori as any of the "professional maoris" , except they don't make an issue out of it. They just get on with life and contributing to society.

    And no-one ever thinks of them as being maori. Until someone points it out. For years our next door neighbour was a Maori princess. You'd never know it from anything she said though, and she had no time for the "professional maoris'

    Being maori shouldn't be an excuse. It shouldn't be a justification. It shouldn't be the only thing you've achieved in life.

    The fact that I'm Maori makes no more difference to anything than the fact that Lou's Italian. Shouldn't make any more difference to the "professional maoris". They need to recognise that this is the 21st century, the worlds moved on, get over it.

    And I wasn't offended by Finns twins thread. Or anything else. If you're offended , ask this . Is it true? Yes? Then instead of being offended get to work to fix the problem. No, not true? Then put up the facts to correct the error. No-one here (nor hardly anywhere else) is slagging of Maoris for the hell of it. If people are critical it's because they see things to be critical of.

    And the arrival of the white man may have buggered up the Maori way of life. But, as the great greats found, that was more than compensated for by the opportunities that it brought. For those with enough gumption to grab 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  15. #15
    Join Date
    2nd April 2005 - 11:58
    Bike
    .
    Location
    .
    Posts
    5,095
    That (the first one) has to be one of the best posts I've viewed this year!! I have very definite views on the issues that surround "Maoridom". I got given the same chances growing up as anybody from any culture (generally) in NZ. I have never had a handout from the government or from my family. I never expect one either. Everything I've got/achieved I worked for - I got off my arse and worked for it. I lived in Wairoa which is very heavily populated by Maori people - many of whom are great people. The only problems I had were Maori giving me shit. Racism is not solely "White" people against brown - more often than not it's completely the opposite.
    They shall not grow old as we that are left grow old.
    Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn.
    At the going down of the sun and in the evening,
    we will remember them

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •