Stress!

[vifferman]

Because I'm nearly 40 and still have no idea what I will be when I grow up. Studying, writing, riding a motorcycle, playing with my kids, loving my wife, playing drums in a band (in no particular order) all mean more to me than what I do for a living.

Criminy Jim - you sound just like me, except I'm about 6 years older'n you at a guess.
I've made a few 'career' changes along the way. Spent 6 years wasting my time at uni (Chem then EarthSciences), then worked as a farm labourer, then a research technician (vet. surgery, farmwork, computer stuff), then 6 years in a dairy lab, then 3 years as a Systems Manager, then a couple of years in software support, then a couple doing house-husbanding and contract programming, then (groan) the last 5 years doing software testing and tech writing.

A wave of despair washes over me whenever someone asks the inevitable, "What do you do?" as if that defines you entirely. Life is more important than that and you are more important than that.

I don't entirely agree with you there. People (esp. males?) are largely defined by what they do or choose to do with most of their weekdays.

I dunno who I am. I'm married with kids, a motorcyclist (a large part of who I am), play guitar, and I'm a jack of all trades (tiling, painting, plastering, plumbing, electrical, stained glass, carpentry, cabinetry, etc etc.), but sadly master of none. And I despair not because of being pigeon-holed, but because I haven't really found a niche, despite many false starts....

[Big Dog]

A wave of despair washes over me whenever someone asks the inevitable, "What do you do?" as if that defines you entirely. Life is more important than that and you are more important than that.

I agree in totality with the last bit at least. It is a good ice breaker at trade events, conferences etc but I dread that question at social events. I would normally only ask that question of someone else in a social setting if either I was trying to kill an uncomfortable silence or trying to get a guage of the sincerity of earlier statements (eg "Yeah? Why what do you do?).

[Big Dog]

Mind you I probably feel this way because my last couple of jobs were Car Salesman and Thug (bouncer).

[k14]

Considering that I am currently doing a BSc, I disagree with you guys.

The entrance requirements to get into uni are pretty lapse, but they weed out all the retards after the first year. You have to pass all your papers before you can go onto second year and those papers aren't a walk in the park. You have to know what you are doing if you are going to pass them.

In my first year classes there were about 150 or so in all of them, now there are 60 in my biggest class and 15 in my smallest. I highly doubt that anyone graduating with a BSc has just cruised through without learning anything on the way, let alone BE. My mate who is in final year doing electrical engineering has at minimum 40 hour weeks and around project/test/exam time up to 80 hours, don't think that is an easy option.

I do agree that the requirements to get into uni are too low, but the people that just scrape into uni get weeded out in the first year and then either repeat papers or drop out. I don't have a problem with this, cause they are subsidising my uni fees. It costs the same weather or not they have 200 or 300 enrolled in a paper, or maybe 2% more.

As for jrandom saying that someone with a C- average BSc going to trade school, what degree do you have?? Someone that graduates with a BSc regardless weather they have a C- or A+ average have definately got too much brains to be an electrican or a plumber.

[Drunken Monkey]

I don't buy the "taxpayer should stump up for the full cost" argument -- on equity grounds if for no other reason.

There's also a related discussion to be had about New Zealand's current obsession with qualifications -- particularly university "degrees" that have little academic rigor and smell of "degree du jour" -- school leavers' obsession with, fashion, film and basket weaving...

But where are the sparkies, chippies, fencing contractors, shearers, mechanics? Does the country have to grind to a halt before something happens to amend this imbalance??

With you around Hitcher, I don't even need to post...

...and your debt gets wiped...

That's not fair on those of us who busted our nuts 55 hours a week during the holidays so we could study & graduate without a loan (ok I still had help form the olds too). Giving someone $$$ then wiping off ANY amount of the debt is unfair on those who didn't have a loan in the first place - it's basically giving someone free money because they had less to start with (probably cos they weren't flipping burgers/scanning groceries/stacking shelves like the rest of us). A loan is a loan, not a free ride.
If you want to make sure student loans get paid back and the economy benefits from loaning money to it's students, introduce a 'student loans on surrender of passport' rule. However, that's precisely NOT the kind of country I want to live in...


As for stress releif? I'm self-employed, so I usually just chuck what I'm doing in for a little while and do something else, take a long lunch, drive around in circles, chat to a customer at the drinks fountain, anything that takes little thought and isn't what I was doing beforehand...
(my customers need me too much to go elsewhere, it's a nice place to be... (*ahem* >> joke)
Hobbies include riding, shooting, and other activities, but I haven't got to the point where I _have_ to do a hobby to releive stress. Work for works sake, hobbies for hobbies sake.

[Drunken Monkey]

Considering that I am currently doing a BSc, I disagree with you guys.

The entrance requirements to get into uni are pretty lapse, but they weed out all the retards after the first year. You have to pass all your papers before you can go onto second year and those papers aren't a walk in the park. You have to know what you are doing if you are going to pass them.

In my first year classes there were about 150 or so in all of them, now there are 60 in my biggest class and 15 in my smallest. I highly doubt that anyone graduating with a BSc has just cruised through without learning anything on the way, let alone BE. My mate who is in final year doing electrical engineering has at minimum 40 hour weeks and around project/test/exam time up to 80 hours, don't think that is an easy option.

I do agree that the requirements to get into uni are too low, but the people that just scrape into uni get weeded out in the first year and then either repeat papers or drop out. I don't have a problem with this, cause they are subsidising my uni fees. It costs the same weather or not they have 200 or 300 enrolled in a paper, or maybe 2% more.

As for jrandom saying that someone with a C- average BSc going to trade school, what degree do you have?? Someone that graduates with a BSc regardless weather they have a C- or A+ average have definately got too much brains to be an electrican or a plumber.

pfffttt...first year was always a walk in the bloody park. Spent more time at uni club or shads or playing 500 or president/bastard in the common room than I did in the lecture theatres. Second year sorted out the men from the boys (well, mostly kicked out the men and the boys and left the studious ladies...)

And don't be so mean to electrician's and plumbers! Some of them are smarter than you think...certainly smarter than some of the dead beats that started when I started and took 2 or more years extra to graduate...

People have got to stop treating uni as a trade/career school. Take some extra cirricular activities (namely philosophy (aka drinking)), do a foreign language, smoke some pot (but don't inhale!), take some arts papers if you're in science or science papers if you're in arts, participate in tourney, go on a road trip, keep the pub crawl alive and put the _stunt_ back into 'capping stunt'! University is there to broaden your horizons, not stick you in a job! Today's students are so fricken square...

[James Deuce]

People have got to stop treating uni as a trade/career school. Take some extra cirricular activities (namely philosophy (aka drinking)), do a foreign language, smoke some pot (but don't inhale!), take some arts papers if you're in science or science papers if you're in arts, participate in tourney, go on a road trip, keep the pub crawl alive and put the _stunt_ back into 'capping stunt'! University is there to broaden your horizons, not stick you in a job! Today's students are so fricken square...

EXACTLY - problem is you can't avoid vocational degreees now. Languages have gone. Russian Lit. has gone. Very soon there will be no books in the libraries!!!!???. My M. Comms (IT) programme, which is mostly History, Social Sciences, Research, and Communication theory is being turned into a management degree - (pause for breath) (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHH)
That traditional repositry of slackers, the double major in Psych and History will very soon be no more.

Why? So the government can say they are producing "knowledge workers", and other trained individuals that have skills relevant to a knowledge economy.

I WANT A BLOODY PLUMBER THAT TURNS UP ON TIME. I've seen enough little Julian's with B.Com degrees, and enough little Jessica's with LLBs to last a bloody lifetime. And can any of them fix my toilet? NO!

[Posh Tourer :P]

The entrance requirements to get into uni are pretty lapse, but they weed out all the retards after the first year. You have to pass all your papers before you can go onto second year and those papers aren't a walk in the park. You have to know what you are doing if you are going to pass them.

I highly doubt that anyone graduating with a BSc has just cruised through without learning anything on the way

I do agree that the requirements to get into uni are too low, but the people that just scrape into uni get weeded out in the first year and then either repeat papers or drop out. I don't have a problem with this, cause they are subsidising my uni fees. It costs the same weather or not they have 200 or 300 enrolled in a paper, or maybe 2% more.

As for jrandom saying that someone with a C- average BSc going to trade school, what degree do you have?? Someone that graduates with a BSc regardless weather they have a C- or A+ average have definately got too much brains to be an electrican or a plumber.

Firstly, what a waste of a first year. That was my impression of first year BSc. Why waste the time for me, at $4000 a year, to weed out people who could have been weeded out by entrance criteria

Secondly, a BSc would mean that you learn something, yes, I'm not saying that it is easy all the way through and you dont learn, just that more learning should be done earlier ie in high school in some cases. The amount of revision in each year could be reduced. Some people would have to resit years or fail them, but why should others have to pay $4000 a year for a degree because we want everyone to at least pass School Cert?

Thirdly, less people = less costs - less facilities required - less staff, less infrastructure. Sure, there would be some subsidisation of fees, but I suspect that the subsidisation would be less than $4000 over your degree, the cost of a wasted first year.

Fourthly, ever tried to be an electrician or a plumber? Doing good work requires more thought than you seem to give credit for. My dad, for instance has a BSc in politics and half a MSc. He was a company director, but spent the past 30 years as an engineer and welder. He is very intelligent, enough to get honours/A pass etc etc 160+ IQ etc etc wank wank. That shows in the quality of his work. I have tried to do some electrics problem solving on the beemer and that was bloody hard work, as was the rest of the process of building it. Not just physical work but also mental work. Want to be a professional auto electrician? not me, too much mental exercise... I guess I'd get used to it after a while though.
The bonus of doing some physical work as a job, I find, is that I sleep better, feel healthier and more alert and eat better. There are many benefits to being a tradesman or something similar. This is why I opted to train as a Park Ranger rather than an engineer or a computer technician. Get out there and enjoy my job, and do some physical work too. (no need for a gym membership for me...). I did the BSc because I wanted to learn the theory of ecological restoration, and that wasnt available anywhere else. Could have done unit standards for use of chainsaw etc etc but didnt. Wouldnt mind at some point perhaps getting a diploma in agriculture. I have spent a little time on a farm, and to be a good farmer, not only do you need intelligence, you need to be multiskilled.
There are lots of bonuses and positive attributes to being a tradesman, just because you dont have the bit of paper degree (wank wank) doesnt mean it doesnt require a lot of intelligence to become a good one. I do think, from what i have heard, that some technical courses do start ata very basic level, but is this also a symptom of the obsession with degrees? perhaps if that subsided, Bursary would be decent enough for a labourer, without having to get a diploma as well. Then the diplomas could be geared a bit higher.

[k14]

Oops, I wasn't saying that tradesmen are dumb, (my dad used to be one aswell) I was just trying to say that they require different kind of minds and if someone that can understand physics/chemistry/computer science to a university level is probably not suited to be a tradesman.

[marty]

It's happened in other countries. I've worked with Indian contractors and according to them you now need a Ph'D or similiar to get a job as a receptionist or even cleaner in India as the educated population has such a high degree of education.

yeah but at what quality? i have seen some indian engineers who have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER.

i tried to get a position with easyjet (UK cheap airline), they train their new pilots in auckland (from zero time) then at about 250hrs put them into the RH seat of a 737. they are bonded to easyjet for 5 years, or they can pay them out. i was turned down, and in a chance conversation with the cheif instructor (who lives in cambridge, and our kids are in the same class!) i found that they are taking PhD or MA students, and that it is easier to get into the RAF!! he reckons though that most of them have zero personality, have never been out of the school environment, and that they should go on a tramp thru nepal or nigeria for a reality check.

i've been at the air nz training school for the last few days. the majority of new trainees are from overseas - 30% are kiwis i reckon. where is everyone? at friggin uni? massey run the engineering degree course, but the trainees are getting paid by air nz at the same time. avionics and aircraft engineers are in huge demand, starting on $25 an hour, get work anywhere in the world in a flash, $900 return to the UK in business class, it's a rorte really

[jrandom]

I was just trying to say that they require different kind of minds and if someone that can understand physics/chemistry/computer science to a university level is probably not suited to be a tradesman.

This post of yours set my flamethrower all the way to 'max', but I don't really have time to make a decent response tonight.

I may reply tomorrow morning... you might want to put your asbestos longjohns on when you get out of bed.

[James Deuce]

This post of yours set my flamethrower all the way to 'max', but I don't really have time to make a decent response tonight.

I may reply tomorrow morning... you might want to put your asbestos longjohns on when you get out of bed.

I'll bring the extra tanks of flammable stuff for the flamethrower.

[k14]

This post of yours set my flamethrower all the way to 'max', but I don't really have time to make a decent response tonight.

I may reply tomorrow morning... you might want to put your asbestos longjohns on when you get out of bed.

I wasn't trying to piss anyone off, just airing my opinion, be gentle .

[dangerous]

Oops, I wasn't saying that tradesmen are dumb, (my dad used to be one aswell) I was just trying to say that they require different kind of minds and if someone that can understand physics/chemistry/computer science to a university level is probably not suited to be a tradesman.

Right O ya little shit, thats the last time this tradesman helps to get that black arsed hairdryer going of yours

Be ready at 6:45am tomorrow fella cos we are going to put this theroy of yours to the test. You are comming to work with me we start at 7am and finish at 5pm you will first set out a Skillion exposed roof at 18* with a dorma Butanol roof attached at 5* you will use the 345 method to sq the roof plain up if you x the seat cut by the pitch and -12% you will have the hip plumb cut and you will be carrying the timbers up 3 storys by yourself and if this is done by 10 you may have smoko with the other boys (you will also clean the bog out and put the jug on (prehaps not in that order)

ps: dont expect to get paid either

[Posh Tourer :P]

This post of yours set my flamethrower all the way to 'max', but I don't really have time to make a decent response tonight.

I may reply tomorrow morning... you might want to put your asbestos longjohns on when you get out of bed.

And something extra to pretect your manhood after the asbestos melts, by the looks of it.