Stress!

[k14]

Right O ya little shit, thats the last time this tradesman helps to get that black arsed hairdryer going of yours

Be ready at 6:45am tomorrow fella cos we are going to put this theroy of yours to the test. You are comming to work with me we start at 7am and finish at 5pm you will first set out a Skillion exposed roof at 18* with a dorma Butanol roof attached at 5* you will use the 345 method to sq the roof plain up if you x the seat cut by the pitch and -12% you will have the hip plumb cut and you will be carrying the timbers up 3 storys by yourself and if this is done by 10 you may have smoko with the other boys (you will also clean the bog out and put the jug on (prehaps not in that order)

ps: dont expect to get paid either

Sorry, got exams to study for

Don't worry, I have worked with tradesman before for a couple of months, 6 to 7ish for my holiday job. It was great to get outside and do stuff and I didn't have a clue what I was doing without them, got to do all the "good" jobs aswell.

I'm sure jrandom is warming up his flame thrower now, but I wasn't meaning to offend anyone, it just came out the wrong way, sorry if i did.

[dangerous]

Sorry, got exams to study for
I'm sure jrandom is warming up his flame thrower now, but I wasn't meaning to offend anyone, it just came out the wrong way, sorry if i did.

Your SORRY well ya bloody well should be to.......
No need to be mate dident bother me at all, just saw a chance to wind ya up was actually waiting for a sinentific (see cant even spell it) reply that would have me stuffed but hay the offer still stands aye, might pay ya though

[merv]

As for stress relief you probably won't hear much from me for the next week as I've managed to score a conference trip to Darwin, leaving tomorrow - yippee! Weather forecast for tomorrow over there is 26 deg and 40% humidity - beautiful. Gotta go see the new railway eh! Oh and eat and drink and lounge around in the sun and maybe listen to the odd paper at the conference. Nice and cruisy.

[MikeL]

As for stress relief you probably won't hear much from me for the next week as I've managed to score a conference trip to Darwin, leaving tomorrow - yippee! Weather forecast for tomorrow over there is 26 deg and 40% humidity - beautiful. Gotta go see the new railway eh! Oh and eat and drink and lounge around in the sun and maybe listen to the odd paper at the conference. Nice and cruisy.

Hmmm, 26 deg, 40% humidity, cruisy job... Sounds almost too good to be true.
Oh yes, don't forget you'll be surrounded by Australians...

[Ms Piggy]

Career is bullshit. Career does not equal happiness. Degree does not equal happiness. Lots of money does not equal happiness. What you do for a job is the least impressive thing about you. Unless of course you are part of the lucky less than one percentage point who get a job that doesn't feel like work, and feel guilty getting paid to play for a living.

If getting a degree makes you happy get one. For heavens sake don't enter the tertiary education system with a job goal in mind. You'll be largely disappointed and prevent yourself from discovering a whole raft of alternatives.

I just want our education system to stop attempting to turn out mindless knowledge worker drones. I want parent, and family, and society, and the school system to stop asking 5 year olds what they want to be when they grow up. 10 and 15 year olds too. Because I'm nearly 40 and still have no idea what I will be when I grow up. Studying, writing, riding a motorcycle, playing with my kids, loving my wife, playing drums in a band (in no particular order) all mean more to me than what I do for a living.

A wave of despair washes over me whenever someone asks the inevitable, "What do you do?" as if that defines you entirely. Life is more important than that and you are more important than that.

People in general do seem obssessed in putting people in boxes & attaching labels on them. The whole "What do you do?" question is a pretty loaded question and it's sad that people define people by their job.

Ti's also said that nowadays a BA is worthless really - well that's the banter I hear all the time. I am really enjoying Uni but like k14 I may end up going overseas. I mean a career in social work isn't a casreer you go into for the money but like I said earlier I'll be 36 when I graduate and...well not much chance of making enough dosh for getting debt free.

[Devil]

Heh, well I can say that right now, money would fix every problem I have
When the problems are gone, then I can work on the happiness. And its usually these problems that send me from happy --> grumpy asshole

[MacD]

Ti's also said that nowadays a BA is worthless really - well that's the banter I hear all the time.

Just ignore comments like that. You'll be surprised how many employers understand that a BA provides skills in critical thinking, research and analysis. Unfortunately these are becoming lost skills at Universities as the trend is to provide vocational courses (ie: training as opposed to education).

[vifferman]

Oops, I wasn't saying that tradesmen are dumb, (my dad used to be one aswell) I was just trying to say that they require different kind of minds and if someone that can understand physics/chemistry/computer science to a university level is probably not suited to be a tradesman.

You may not have been trying to offend anyone, but you've obviously bought into the whole "If you're smart, go to university" bullshit.
Someone that can understand physics/chem/computer science is EXACTLY the kind of person we need getting into the trades. I've dealt with some VERY clever cookies who were electricians or plumbers, and some who were not at all smart, and who couldn't think outside the square, and who made a cockup of a job that required thinking of a novel solution.
The guy who worked on our alarm system was VERY bright, and had no tertiary qualifications at all. Similarly my son rates in the top 1-2% of the population for IQ and cognitive abilities, and knows more about computers, electronics and software than most of the coneheads who work at the software house I'm employed at. He's working in a shop, and is very unlikely to do tertiary studies. Why not? Because he teaches himself, reading shitloads of esoteric and complicated stuff on the internet, and there is not a lot he could learn at university, so he'd probably die of boredom, just trying to get a degree to 'prove' he had brains, in order to be able to do the same stuff he can already do for some prospective employer. What an absolute waste of time, and what a stupid system that values pieces of paper more than demonstrable skills and knowledge.
On the other hand, my eldest son is currently doing the third year of his pharmacy degree, is doing well, loves it, and it IS the right path for him, because he absolutely blossoms in that sort of environment. And he wants to be a pharmacist or pharmacologist, and this is the only way he can get there.

[MikeL]

I have 3 brothers. Of the 4 boys in the family, the eldest and the youngest left school at 15 or 16, one with no qualification at all, the other with U.E. One went into a trade and has over the years acquired property assets that have left him comfortably well off, as well as having had a relatively stress-free life. The other went into business, starting as office boy. He has just retired after selling his campervan business and walked away with many millions of dollars. The middle two, myself included, went to university, acquired degrees, diplomas and what have you, and ended up as teachers. On the material plane we are far worse off than the other two. On the other hand success in life is not only to be measured in dollars...
For me, going to university was still the right choice. I am grateful to this country for giving me the opportunity to do so. My background is solid working class. I was the first in at least four generations that I know of to have a university education. The political, social and economic policies of the 60s and 70s might be unfashionable now, but we got some things right.

[Marmoot]

Funny...I have a Masters degree and I WISH I were a tradesperson instead.
It seems degree is nothign nowadays and tradesperson can get better employment opportunities and/or living.

When I graduated 2 years ago, I hold a Masters Degree and while chatting with this shopkeeper she was saying "Oh you must really be Something" and I gave her a look of "what? ye'r pulling my leg. Gaining the degree taught me nothing useful, was a walk in the park and did not get me any improvement in job opportunities". So yeah I'd say degrees mean sh*t all to employers nowadays.

Not that I say degrees are useless, coz now I realized that while learning the University taught you 'thinking process'. Not ideas itself, but how to develop an idea and analytical thinking skill.

But, now I'm an employer myself, I find degree'd people to be too handful nowadays. Young graduates whine all the time about pay being not enough, and they are so up their nose on attitude thinking they are the best in the world when they couldn't even mind the minor details properly. Not all of course, but a lot of them started out begging for a job and after 2 months proved to be too hot to handle. And with all these law on employee protections and big payouts set out by the government, it is not easy to be an employer at all (just about everything you do can get you sued). Thus now I have quite an adverse view on degree'd people.

The other thing about degree is, it does not put you into the correct place most of the time. When I entered Uni, I was young and naive and did not know what I want to do. By the time I finished my degree, it is too late to startover to learn something else, so I ended up trapped in the wrong qualification. I couldn't get the job I want because "I do not have the qualification for it", but I do not want to do the job I'm 'qualified' in.

All in all, it's just my opinion. At the end of the day, University teaches you something. Not directly useful, but something nonetheless. But it is certainly not "really something" anymore nowadays

Honestly, I wish I were a Firefighter

[MacD]

By the time I finished my degree, it is too late to startover to learn something else, so I ended up trapped in the wrong qualification.

One thing you learn as you get older is that it's never too late to startover. I retrained at 30+ years of age. Another 10 years later I'm considering a further change. It really comes down to how much you're willing to put up with in order to change. Usually a big drop in income (initially) and maybe a student loan to deal with. However if you went into a trade you'd be earning as you learnt which isn't a bad thing.

[NordieBoy]

Ya what?!? What sort of a job combines these two, or are you pulling our (collective) leg?

I fix computers.
Mainly home pc's - at peoples homes.
Based in Nelson and coverage is from the Rai to Golden Bay and through to Tapawera.
3-6 jobs per day.

I ride either...
http://motorsport.nelson.geek.nz/myb...shbobbins2.jpg
or
http://motorsport.nelson.geek.nz/myb...e=tbu-givi.jpg

Depending on the weather/backroads/gravel/speed humps etc.

Whangamoas, Rai Saddle, Takaka Hill, Moutere, Dovedale, Jacobs Ladder, Kerrs Hill, Motueka Valley (West Bank if you like gravel) - All fun.

[Milky]

Hell I would have done a trade apprenticeship if they actualy catered for the smart ones... but FFS I am not going to be stuck with a bunch of guys/gals who scraped through school cert/sixthform/bursary with a few passes. I would get terribly bored, and most likely end up hating myself for choosing something that didnt stretch me academically.
I would love to see the trades get more emphasis in school, and the appeal widend to include those who are actually reasonably capable. I have a longtime friend who is doing an electrical appreticeship - he got through bursary with about 230 I think. Correct me if I am wrong TS - and the gearing of the course is slow for him, so I would shudder to think what it is like for your average/above average student.
I would much rather be earning money while I am learning, but the appeal of going to Uni was greater as it gave me more options in the future... It would be nice to see more companies - which I am now aware of, having been at uni for a while - getting out there earlier and searching for apprentices actively, helping people through the learning process, and stimulating some return of service etc. I did try to get a joband training in this way, but was rejected because the people concerned thought I was too bright for the situation/coworkers/proposed training path.
The prospect of $30k in student loan is a big negative, but with the options that were presented to me at the time, it turned out as the best option. I love what I am doing at the moment, so hopefully that will continue through my studies and into the workforce.
On the subject of student loans and allowances, it would be nice to see a universal student allowance, or at least a relaxation of the criteria regarding parents income. This present scheme does nothing for the student who goes to uni against/without the support of their parents. A fact that gets bandied around alot is the one of students borrowing to live... Not something I think we should be encouraging as a country, and the allowance changes would lessen this dependency. It would also make life a little easier for those students who are doing a degree that requres a large chunk of their time. I have talked to 3rd/4th year engineers here at UoA and many say it is a 60 hour a week job to complete assignments, doing all night stints, weekends and more to keep up with the workload. I guess it depends how much care you put into your study and whether you are trying for first class honours, but that is still a workload which doesnt allow for much earning of money... Ah the joys which await me......

[jrandom]

I have talked to 3rd/4th year engineers here at UoA and many say it is a 60 hour a week job to complete assignments, doing all night stints, weekends and more to keep up with the workload.

Yup, it is. But that's why BEs from Auckland are still good currency in the job market (overseas, too). A 'B' or better grade average proves that you've got a modicum of intelligence, but more importantly, enough balls to stick to something and do a good job of it.

What you actually *learn* there is interesting stuff, but it's not the be-all and end-all and often it only covers 5% of what you'll end up doing for a living. These days, I tend to view undergrad degrees as 'certificates of non-laziness'. Degrees that can be coasted through don't certify non-laziness, hence they are worthless. QED.

[jrandom]

I wasn't trying to piss anyone off, just airing my opinion, be gentle .

I woke up in a vaguely lazy zen-like state this morning, so no flamage directed at your sorry arse has eventuated. The thing is, though - if you *had* been intentionally yanking chains, it wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest. It was your naively honest little exercise in self-glorification that annoyed me.

Anyway, I think the other guys who've responded to this thread have addressed things pretty well. One day, you might come to realise that it's impossible to box people up like that. Also, you might not have noticed, but you're coming across as an unpleasant, up-himself git.