Aftermarket Exhaust and New Rules

**SPman** · 13th May 2003, 19:21

Had to take a case like this to garner any public attention!

Mind you, people (Mr & Mrs Public) are now being roused from their comfy chairs and might start to take notice.......

**Coldkiwi** · 13th May 2003, 21:36

so... if I start my letter

Dear Imbecilic Gits*...

Your brain is filled with snot and your education makes a stoat thats been skulling ethanol for a week look like a certified genius!!...

*herald, police chiefs, LTSA, MP's

do you think they'll print it?

**aff-man** · 13th May 2003, 22:20

Maybe the local papers could print something giving the average joe who doesn't buy the herald a heads up.By the way is it legal to make a law that leaves so much room for descretion because in my very very very limited undersatnding if it's not a black and white law anything done against you cauld potentially be taking to court where due to coldkiwi's extensive explaination anything to do with exhaust noise level readings is highly inacurate. Ad court costs are a lot cheaper that getting your exhaust replaced .

**Coldkiwi** · 14th May 2003, 13:09

exhaust noise levels readings don't have to be dodgy. they just have to well set out for all to see and be based on meaningful research

As for court costs... I'm actually really tempted to make a REAL din next time I go past a cop. i've got a standard exhaust but I might just redline it (clutch in) going past and get him to pull me over... and then have some fun asking him to explain what the hell they are doing, what the hell they THINK they are doing and why the hell they think they might do it and know why!. I suspect quite strongly that my bike would make more than 85dB at 7000rpm at a metre (I guess thats where the idiots measure it?).. but its a stock exhaust!! haha... oh I would really have some fun in court with that.

I hope that Mrs Cates gets some good legal advice because someone has to MAKE- THEM -PAY!!!

**duckman** · 15th May 2003, 16:20

I not sure I understand how this is going to work - If the test is based on whether or not your aftermarket exhaust is louder than your standard setup, are the LTSA going to provide the WOF shops with a decibel rating for every make and model of every car, bike and truck ever produced ??

I suspect the LTSA would have trouble producing a decibel rating for the hot air that escapes their collective cake holes.

Also, Who's responsible for the ticket if your bike comes fitted from the bike shop with an aftermarket setup.
e.g. for a limited time all Ducati 750SS's were sold from Haldanes with arrow carbon fibre pipes - Which sound absolutely brilliant and quite loud.

Once again motorcyclists pay the price for cars stupidity!!

**bluninja** · 15th May 2003, 16:52

Duckman we are paying for government and LTSA stupidity, cars have little to do with it, other than giving them an excuse to expose their stupidness to the public.

TTFN

**duckman** · 15th May 2003, 17:19

- good point - My bad

**Coldkiwi** · 22nd May 2003, 17:39

righty ho.. I'm slowly compiling my submission to LTSA/letter to MP. Its taking a while because each time I find some more information on acoustics and proceedures for assessement, it raises more questions about what they are trying to do with this legislation!

The amount of contradictions and irregularities I have come across is quite unbelievable.

So far I've found overseas information from London (40 page draft report from the mayor.. remarkably well written and researched), a 56 page report from sweden (and you know how thorough the germanic/nordic lot are!) on vehicle noise, the interesting view point from the NSW motorcycle council (cheers wkid), the herald article about Mrs Cates getting booked and then passed, ISO and British standards regarding vehicle nnoise measurement, conflicting information from the police website and very little info from LTSA that means squat!

I did however have a rather interesting conversation with a calibration inspector in Porirua today and he revealed that neither the police nor LTSA have consulted them ( 'we are the only source of scientific information for the police') about this legislation. I suggested they probably would need some technical input when they get my submission!!

I fully intend to bury them and highlight all of the crap (not hard when you know a little about acoustics) that this legislation has in it to my MP and LTSA

I'll put a post in here (or maybe a new topic cause it won't be short!) and you're all welcome to drag ideas out and flick them on as seperate letters or whatever to those in positions of alleged power.

**wkid_one** · 22nd May 2003, 19:21

There is a present news article at regarding the legality of the LTSA law re exhaust noise - saying unless they can demonstrate a positive correlation between exhaust noise and vehicle safety - the law may in fact be illegal.

**Motu** · 22nd May 2003, 22:31

Got myself a loan of a decibel metre to fart around with (no,haven't done that yet,but can do a 100db belch!)

So...yeah,cars are quiet - 1 or 2 metres,45deg angle,standard exhaust not much over 70db.CRX with slightyl noisy exhaust - 110db on a rev.My Honda? - 100db without trying too hard (bummer!) Now the good part - my Honda TLR200 trials bike - 100db...shit man,you can't hear this thing running from 2 metres away!!!!! Hi Ace diesel....100db just standing beside the thing!

So this 1 metre 45deg test is worthless,but it works with a standard car,so the cops are going to use it...of course just about anything will fail.These metres are just too damn sensitive.Did a Google on the subject today and the only things about db testing motor vehicles is the drive by - not practical.

Anyone with more clues than me got any concrete info on exhaust noise level testing? Some exhaust systems say they have been tested to a cetain db level - yeah,but how?

**Coldkiwi** · 23rd May 2003, 17:05

motu, anything talking about exahust levels from a manufacturer will have been done to the ISO 362 standard (listed under the "noise laws in NZ" thread) which is the big impractical (for everyone but large companies).

What is this 1m at 45degree thing? Where did that come from motu? There is (of course) nothing in any standard that suggests it and I haven't been able to dredge anything up from LTSA that says they should test like that. If you can gimme some info on that I can almost certainly show how ludicrous it is. I have access to a $30,000 B&K sound level meter (being an acoustic engineer has some uses!) that I can take around and measure a good range of cars (modified and non-modified) that would be very useful to be able to have in my submission.

let me know dude

**mccool** · 23rd May 2003, 20:11

Kia ora KiwiBikers

What a great site! Pleased to meet all you all. Heres my submission to LTSA on the topic. Feel free to use it for yours. Its worth sending them something, ivil servants have to apy attention to the response to their own consultation. I knoe, i are one.

**Motu** · 23rd May 2003, 20:29

I have no idea where this test method came from - must be some sort of urban legend in the trade,I have heard it enough times for it to make an impression on my subconsious,my consious mind doesn't know.But I also get the impression that that's how the police are testing.Can anyone confirm how they are using their decibel metres?

More tests today,cars sure are quiet,diesels very noisy.Todays bike test was on a standard VFR750,lots of noise to send the metre crazy,but it's not exhaust noise.So it appears there is no way to set up a simple,repeatable decibel test in a workshop or testing station situation,I don't see how this whole thing can work,it's dumb,dumb,dumb!!!

Had a Ducati 851 in for a WOF with Staintunes - how could anyone be upset with the noise this thing put out,it was beautiful! I guess I am a biased inspector and should turn myself in to protect the public.

**Slim** · 24th May 2003, 02:51

I've been making my own enquiries today & found some interesting stuff. I'd be interested in a summary of what you've come up with from the technical side, ColdKiwi.

The proposed changes to exhaust noise are not "law" but "rules" and therefore don't have to be put thru parliament
Exhaust noise is in no way mentioned or referred to in the new "Boy Racer" legislation AT ALL
Police instructions regarding excessive exhaust noise refer to the 1976 Traffic Regulations (which is interesting!)
No WOF issuer that I spoke to, including VTNZ, has noise measurement equipment.
My motorcycle, with it's aftermarket Micron can on it, would be passed for WOF by my local Honda dealer and VTNZ, and the Highway Patrol Cop I spoke to said he certainly wouldn't green sticker it.

I think that's it for the actual exhaust rules. But I found out all sorts of other interesting things today.

I know more about the exhaust rule & proposed change than my local Honda Dealer (and WOF issuer)
All vehicles impounded under the new Boy Racer law (for racing, burnouts, unnecessary displays of speed or acceleration or putting diesel on the road) MUST have a green sticker applied to it by the police officer.
The Defective Vehicle Notice (Green sticker) refers to the Land Transport Act 1998 (see my earlier comment)
If your vehicle is Green Stickered, you HAVE to take it to a VTNZ testing station for a new WOF, but comments from my local Honda Dealer indicate that they are not sufficiently familiar with Motorcycle WOF requirements, and may not even have a fully motorcycle driver licenced inspector. (The Hamilton one does, but he wasn't in when I went to see them).

I think that's about it. I'm now off to find copies of the 1976 and 1998 versions of the law to find out what's going on.