Counter steering vs Body steering

[wkid_one]

You'll be right KK - unless you need to take a right hand corner - then you'll crash!  HAHAHAH

Here is an idea - go round a corner and try and get your knee down on the outside of the bike - that is something I would pay to see happen........

One of the things to really consider in cornering is the position of your arms.  Many riders ride with their arms almost at lock out.  However. if you drop your forearms to be parallel to the ground - you will notice that turning the bike is significantly easier - why??  Because more of the energy is being used to push to bars away from you, rather than a higher position which means some of the energy is actually pushing the bars down........it makes cornering shit loads easier - plus puts you in a better riding position - allowing you to dip your shoulder better to the centre of the corner.

If that fails - shut your eyes!

 

[Motu]

It's just gyroscopics,we all know that - but lets look at it again.

We hold the standard bicycle wheel by the axle and spin it - turn it to the right....Whoa! the wheel tilts to the left! cool!

Spin her up again...now tilt it to the left - yikes!..it turns to the left!....freaky eh?

The best way to see it in action is to watch a speedway bike - turn the front wheel and the bike lays down...the bike lays down and the fixed rear wheel turns - we are sideways!! .

The art of speedway riding is just forces of nature at work.

[Redstar]

I've only discovered the wonders of countersteering about a year or so before that I was a traditionalist. knee tank grip.
I never under stood why my seat sloped off left and right and was so under padded. now I knee down shift weight and apply pressure to the rear. What a buzz and so much safer.
I wish i was 17 again you lucky bastards..

[Antallica]

Originally posted by Redstar
I wish i was 17 again you lucky bastards..

mmwwaaahahaha

It's more fun on mountainbikes.... gotta love stoppies

[bluninja]

Originally posted by Motu
It's just gyroscopics,we all know that - but lets look at it again.

We hold the standard bicycle wheel by the axle and spin it - turn it to the right....Whoa! the wheel tilts to the left! cool!

Spin her up again...now tilt it to the left - yikes!..it turns to the left!....freaky eh? 

Errrr gyroscopics???? Isn't the gyroscopic effect the thing that that actually resists the turning? Hence why turning the front requires more force the faster you go, and why lighter wheels help (as well as improving unsprung mass for suspension). I thought that countersteering caused the bike to 'fall' over the front tyre and the side thrust from the tyres profile caused the bike then to turn. Notice that bicycles and motorbikes (including speedway) have a rounded profile and cars have a flat profile. If it was all gyroscopic then it would work for cars wouldn't it?

BTW when you are on the rear wheel and turn your bars to the right to go left, it is the reactive force from the gyroscopic effect that pushes the bike over and then allows the rear tyre profile to continue the turn.'

TTFN

[wkid_one]

Yes, you are right Simon - gyro is what wants to keep the bike upright rather than promoting turn.  A testament to that is when you try and brake a gyroscopic force - the bike wants to stand up - if it promoted turn it would want to tuck under.

Hence why lowering your forearms to parallel to the ground is more effective as you are operating your level perpedicular to the force you are trying to alter, rather than obliquely.

 

 

 

[Motu]

Agreed - to a degree...get that bicycle wheel and give it a spin.Then get some square tyres to try on your bike.If you then turn the bars to the right and turn right,come and show me.Then go and ride a sidecar,and if possible a sidecar with floating top links.Wierd things motorcycles.Try and find a picture of a speedway rear tyre in action - the bike is not running on the edge of the tyre,it's putting down a lot more tread than that.

[Hoon]

I learnt counter-steering very early as my first bike was an old GS550 which weighed a tonne and counter steering was the only way to get it to turn.  I didn't even realise I was doing it at the time. I remember me and a mate did a 2-up day trip from AKL to Cape Reinga and back, I got tired on the way back and swapped over with him.  We took off (his first time riding my bike) and when we got to the first turn he proceeded to go straight ahead while trying to turn the bars, off the road but luckily braking to a stop just as we went onto the grass. 

He was right after that tho.

[bluninja]

So Motu, explain how you steer on a unicycle

not a lot of gyroscopic force there, but a nice rounded profile for camber thrust.

BTW speedway bikes are actually sliding the rear through the corners, and there is still thrust generated by the tyre profile, the physics of slip angles just gets a bit too much for me to explain. I'll be happy to come and watch you fall on your arse trying to countersteer a flat profile tyred bike. Just put in the steering input, momentum of the bike pushes the bike over the leading edge of the tyre, and suddenly no grip, front washes out....just like if you have a flat at the front, or you are riding KKs bike 

Here's a suggestion for you to try. Rig up your spinning wheel on your bike in line with the axis of your front wheel. Turn this wheel to left or right and see if it induces countersteer on your bike without any other steering input. If it does then you've proved gyroscopic 'steering', if not........

TTFN