Honda Engineering Brilliance

[Motu]

My 10 cents.

But the title of your thread says ''engineering brilliance'' - you can't then make excuses for the antiquated rear brake,no stretch of the imagination can call a drum brake ''engineering brilliance'' in the 21st century.Next you'll be raving about the inovative Harley air cooled Vtwin!

[RantyDave]

Sorry but it appears to be, well, garbage.

Like, it's a single, and has a drum brake. Which would be fine if it was $4k new (and, let's face it, they'd have a big success on their hands if it was) - but it isn't. $7k. For something a quarter notch more sophisticated than a GN, and only $1k cheaper than the very lush VTR250.

Why? Why bother? OTOH thank you to Mr Honda for helping hold up the price of second hand single cylinder bikes

Dave

[SwanTiger]

But the title of your thread says ''engineering brilliance'' - you can't then make excuses for the antiquated rear brake,no stretch of the imagination can call a drum brake ''engineering brilliance'' in the 21st century.Next you'll be raving about the inovative Harley air cooled Vtwin!

I'm not talking about the performance or the technology, I'm talking about the overall design and its purpose. It is a practical motorcycle, it is beautiful, it does everything one should want from a learner 250cc motorcycle.

[Ixion]

Actually, why does ANY bike need a disk rear brake? Is there any bike out there where rear brake fade is an issue? Sprots bikes, the rear hardly gets used anyway, and under hard braking (when fade would be an issue) the rear wheel is hardly going to be in contact with the ground.

Has ANYONE experienced rear brake fade? ever?

[Motu]

Because I ride a lot of gravel my rear disc gets smoking hot and turns blue,I use the rear brake hard and often - and never had brake fade,disc or drum.I got new pads today...the rear pads are 3 times the thickness of the fronts,so looks like using the rear brake is expected on these types of bike.

I've got no problem with drum brakes,front or rear - I just don't think we can call them engineering brilliance.I think the word SwanTiger was looking for was ''design'' brilliance.

[SwanTiger]

Because I ride a lot of gravel my rear disc gets smoking hot and turns blue,I use the rear brake hard and often - and never had brake fade,disc or drum.I got new pads today...the rear pads are 3 times the thickness of the fronts,so looks like using the rear brake is expected on these types of bike.

I've got no problem with drum brakes,front or rear - I just don't think we can call them engineering brilliance.I think the word SwanTiger was looking for was ''design'' brilliance.

No, engineering was the correct choice of word according to the dictionary.

The application of scientific and mathematical principles to practical ends such as the design, manufacture, and operation of efficient and economical structures, machines, processes, and systems.

This is a Honda ROAD BIKE, not a trail bike, obviously trail bikes are more likely to be used on gravel or dirt and thus are generally designed with the appropriate technology to suite their intended use.

Drum brakes have only been made obsolete due to 'performance' demands from most 'high performance engine motorcycles'.

Honda's are like Hyosung to me, I will defend the name to the grave! My first bike was a Honda Moped that was lovingly thrashed around farm paddocks and the back yard.

[Motu]

This is a Honda ROAD BIKE, not a trail bike, .

:slap: I had noticed that,after a detailed examination.I was answering Ixion's question about brake fade,as an extreme rear brake user I thought my experiance would be useful.

Maybe we can now move on to disect your choice of the word ''brilliance'' - no matter how we look at it,I can't see anything that would make anyone rave about a drum brake in 2006.Defend all you like - the bike is old school in a modern world,it's not brilliant.

[SwanTiger]

FINE! Leave me to my humble thoughts of childhood bliss on bikes with front and rear drum brakes! I still think it is engineering brilliance. Your disagreement is duly noted.

[Motu]

Your hide bound defence of a lost cause is also noted.

I love old school - I own a Lada remember....I actualy don't believe there is such a thing as ''new school'',just old stuff reinvented with new technolgy.What I'd like to see is cutting edge drum brakes....they do have advantages you know.

[Ixion]

I have long wondered if the contracting band drum brake is not due for reinvention.

They have the advantages of the drum brake, in theory at least the fade resistance of a disk(hard to say from experience , since fade was not an issue when they were last around), and a greater friction area than a disk. And no need for 16 squidzillion calipers.

The problems of exposure to dirt water and stones that led to their demise are the same for disks and presumably not a problem on todays roads. The other problem they had, of obtaining sufficient leverage, is long solved by the hydraulics engineers.

Next years brilliant engineering breakthorugh, maybe?

EDIT: Call it a circumferential disk brake, and everybody'll want one.

[Mr. Peanut]

Are you drunk?

The C50 was brilliant, this is an overpriced lawnmower.

[Mr. Peanut]

That's more like it.

[SwanTiger]

That's more like it.

Now that is what I call a bike. Pity about the paint scheme.

[Mr. Peanut]

I have long wondered if the contracting band drum brake is not due for reinvention.

They have the advantages of the drum brake, in theory at least the fade resistance of a disk(hard to say from experience , since fade was not an issue when they were last around), and a greater friction area than a disk. And no need for 16 squidzillion calipers.

The problems of exposure to dirt water and stones that led to their demise are the same for disks and presumably not a problem on todays roads. The other problem they had, of obtaining sufficient leverage, is long solved by the hydraulics engineers.

Next years brilliant engineering breakthorugh, maybe?

EDIT: Call it a circumferential disk brake, and everybody'll want one.

Would be far more expensive to manufacter than a disk brake I imagine. Would you want to pull it apart? >_<

[Mr. Peanut]

Now that is what I call a bike. Pity about the paint scheme.

Not like theres much to paint. It comes in black. It's my next bike

Here's a nice 250 Honda.