Honda Engineering Brilliance

[Motu]

Would be far more expensive to manufacter than a disk brake I imagine. Would you want to pull it apart? >_<

Since when has price come into it? Is a dohc 4 valve 4 cyl 6 speed cheaper to make than a pushrod single?

The 3 most important things with brakes are - leverage,mean effective radius and heat disapation....the disc brake only has one of these.Buell has gone to a rotor out to the wheel rim,giving maximum radius (a reinvention of the Phillips disc brake I think).

[Ixion]

,,Buell has gone to a rotor out to the wheel rim,giving maximum radius (a reinvention of the Phillips disc brake I think).

Hmm. Stirrup brakes anyone?

But, seriously, its prolly time someone took a fresh look at brakes. The disk brake was and is a nasty thing. Only reason it became prevalent was , as Mr Motu says, it does heat dissapation well. Nothing else well, just that.

And in the 50s and 60s , both with bikes and cars, the friction material technology had plateaued, heat dissapation was the big issue with brakes. So disks gave an edge in racing. And cos racers had 'em boy racers and squids had to also, thence the wrld. But it's still a nasty thing. And with modern advances in technology , probably unnecessary.

For that matter, do we need brakes on the wheels at all? What about transmission brakes. Ever seen what THEY can do? Or regenerative braking? People always think the key to the future is more of the present. People lack imagination.

[sAsLEX]

The 3 most important things with brakes are - leverage,mean effective radius and heat disapation....

And it you want to go fast Inertia!

For that matter, do we need brakes on the wheels at all? What about transmission brakes. Ever seen what THEY can do? Or regenerative braking? People always think the key to the future is more of the present. People lack imagination.

Check this out a car mind you with no brakes and 640HP
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html

[Edbear]

And it you want to go fast Inertia!



Check this out a car mind you with no brakes and 640HP
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html

Nice! Unfortunately it is bound to have a stratospheric price, too. This is the main problem - the engineering has to be cost effective and cost competitive and this is the reason we have old technology in our cars.

Imagination is alive and well in our designers and engineers, but the beancounters and the wallets of Joe-public is what takes the time for these innovations to find their way into our cars and bikes.

[sAsLEX]

Nice! Unfortunately it is bound to have a stratospheric price, too. This is the main problem - the engineering has to be cost effective and cost competitive and this is the reason we have old technology in our cars.

Imagination is alive and well in our designers and engineers, but the beancounters and the wallets of Joe-public is what takes the time for these innovations to find their way into our cars and bikes.

Watch a little documentary called "Who killed the electric car?"

And you will see there is much more to it than that!

[Mr. Peanut]

What about transmission brakes. Ever seen what THEY can do?

Thought about that. These new fancy torque splitting systems can provide excellent traction during acceleration. Could the same process be reversed for braking?

[Crasherfromwayback]

But, seriously, its prolly time someone took a fresh look at brakes. The disk brake was and is a nasty thing. Only reason it became prevalent was , as Mr Motu says, it does heat dissapation well. Nothing else well, just that.

And in the 50s and 60s , both with bikes and cars, the friction material technology had plateaued, heat dissapation was the big issue with brakes. So disks gave an edge in racing.

The only reason? Nothing else well? Just that?

Utter crap.

[Ixion]

Mr Motu's three - " leverage,mean effective radius and heat disapation".
Add weight. And cost. And "crashability"/durability . And easy maintainance. Which of these apart from heat dissipation do y'reckon the disk brake does well? Or any others you wish to add.

Bear in mind, we're talking engineering here, so answers like "They stop bikes well" and similar are not relevant. From a engineers perspective, then.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Mr Motu's three - " leverage,mean effective radius and heat disapation".
Add weight. And cost. And "crashability"/durability . And easy maintainance. Which of these apart from heat dissipation do y'reckon the disk brake does well? Or any others you wish to add.

Bear in mind, we're talking engineering here, so answers like "They stop bikes well" and similar are not relevant. From a engineers perspective, then.

One at a time then.
Add weight? Over what? A carbon disc weights fuck all.

They love heat.

The last thing you're worried about when you bin it is if your brakes still work.

Hardly say replacing pads or rotors is a tough job.

Tell me all about the system you'd rather use and why?

Then email HRC and make a 'mill'.

[Motu]

Add weight? Over what? A carbon disc weights fuck all.

And if we apply the same technology to something else? A duo servo drum brake applies over 5 times the application force to the drum.....a disc brake 0.5 - that's half what you put in gets applied,terribly inefficient,but damn good on heat disapation.All any other braking system needs is better heat disapation - ever seen racing trucks? They have water cooled drums.

[Crasherfromwayback]

And if we apply the same technology to something else? A duo servo drum brake applies over 5 times the application force to the drum.....a disc brake 0.5 - that's half what you put in gets applied,terribly inefficient,but damn good on heat disapation.All any other braking system needs is better heat disapation - ever seen racing trucks? They have water cooled drums.

As I said. Email HRC. You could be on to something.
But in the 'body' of the email....make sure you attract attention to the 'motorcycle' division.

Oh yeah......'feel' is quite a nice attribute too.

[Crasherfromwayback]

But it's still a nasty thing. And with modern advances in technology , probably unnecessary.

For that matter, do we need brakes on the wheels at all? What about transmission brakes. Ever seen what THEY can do? Or regenerative braking? People always think the key to the future is more of the present. People lack imagination.

Until we have two wheel drive (not far away I know), just how do you think transmission brakes of any type would be a plus on a motorcycle?
And liquid cooled drums on racing trucks....all good. But we're talking motorcycles. Weight is a problem. Disc brakes are used STILL in cutting edge race vehicles...F1 cars, Moto GP bikes etc. Because they're the best avail technology we currently have for the application, not purely because the only thing they have going for them is heat dissipation.

[Motu]

Kinda like telescopic forks,they are far from ideal - but the best solution to date.

The ATK has always used a transmission brake - at the final drive sprocket.I've never ridden one of course,and hear it is an aquired taste.....but the alternatives are always out there.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Kinda like telescopic forks,they are far from ideal - but the best solution to date.

The ATK has always used a transmission brake - at the final drive sprocket.I've never ridden one of course,and hear it is an aquired taste.....but the alternatives are always out there.

I have, and 'aquired' is a polite word!
I always wanted to get my hands on the 700cc two stroke they made...
Alternatives are out there for sure....but I thought this was about disc brakes being only good at heat dissipation.....which I don't think is true.

[carver]

When I first got my GTR it was the "first" real road bike i'd had after the GN 250. I used the back brake a lot when cornering, however after a while (5,000 km or so) I stopped using it.

I don't think there is any right or wrong way about doing these things. Just do what feels comfortable and always seek new information and develop your riding style. It'll always change but you'll hold onto certain habits once they are proven in your mind to be "the right way".

I'd say its only dangerous if you are heavy on it and use it in a "fear reaction" should you enter a corner too fast - kind of thing. Trailing through a corner ain't really dangerous. If it's wet, just ride to the conditions.

We all learn differently. Some have more scars and broken arms than others

using the rear brake while cornering is a good move.
i do it all the time, come in too hot, gently introduce the rear brake, just before half way..power on, and your out!
works for me, now my foot goes instinctivly over the rear brake while going into a corner.
i learnt that from dirt bikes and trying to ride a scooter hard