Corners - pretty simple when you think about it

[jrandom]

Not a safe thing to do but in an emergency I believe that it is safer to crash down a gear than to suddenly hit the brakes.

Depends. Dunno 'bout your Guzzi, but my FXR has enough engine braking to start the rear wheel hopping and skipping on just about any downshift if I don't match speed and revs properly. Just thinking about the idea of clunking down suddenly in the middle of a corner makes me go all puckery.

I suspect that most bikes allow much finer-grained speed-scrubbing with the brakes than with the engine.

[k14]

Yeah, same with my cbr and that is the reason I didn't jam it into 2nd when it went into neutral, didn't touch the brakes either.

Ill have to admit that I have had to throw on the brakes a few times going round a corner that I misjudged. It definately screws up the balance of the bike and makes you run a bit wide, have never touched the rear brake mid corner though, don't really want to.

[Motu]

I use a hell of a lot of road,it probably looks dangerous,but I don't do it in front of stock trucks eh.Comes from gravel road riding,keeping it smooth without loosing speed,I cut all right apexes to the gutter,straighten a bunch of curves by just going apex,apex,apex - I also do this in the wet,as I said,kepping it smooth without loosing speed.I also have ridden a few totaly guttless bikes,like my 425lb 500cc BSA with 13hp,my C50 and FA50 - loosing road speed is a sin punishable by being passed by a pushbike,never,ever back off,power on at all times and take every chance in the book - Two Smoker will back me up on this,going fast is total comitment you will never achieve on a powerful bike.

[FROSTY:Me]

every corner is different every approach is a new one.
As i recall it though "the" way to corner is
A) brake in a straight line as you aproach the corner
b) move to the right hand side of the lane in a left hand corner or to the left on a right hander.
c) select an appropriate gear to ensure drive around the corner.
d) apply constant throttle or accellerate around the corner
e) as you straighten up wind the throttle on and accelerate to the next corner.
WEll thats how I think it goes anyways
Not that i'd know mind you

[Two Smoker]

Damn right ill back you up Motu, the only reason i keep up with 600-1000cc bikes is because i hardly EVER touch the brakes...... You have to keep the speed up at all times.....

[RiderInBlack]

Damn right ill back you up Motu, the only reason i keep up with 600-1000cc bikes is because i hardly EVER touch the brakes...... You have to keep the speed up at all times.....

Is that how you get me on the Heavy Hamster at Puke I'm swinging in the brakes trying to dump some speed before that heavy bitch of mine sends me to the sandpit to play , and you still got the throttle open

[Skyryder]

Depends. Dunno 'bout your Guzzi, but my FXR has enough engine braking to start the rear wheel hopping and skipping on just about any downshift if I don't match speed and revs properly. Just thinking about the idea of clunking down suddenly in the middle of a corner makes me go all puckery.

I suspect that most bikes allow much finer-grained speed-scrubbing with the brakes than with the engine.

Can understand that. To down shift without the clutch is an extreme measure (like evading a head on) to be sure but if you have come into a corner to fast and have no engine braking (due to pre braking, you are litteraly coasting) you have two options brake while the bike is on the lean and risk a dump or down shift real fast so as to use enging braking. It's a technique only to be used in an extreem emergency. I have never had to crash a down shift but years ago I rode with a guy who crashed the gear so as to avoid a head on. He reckoned it was that which saved his life.

Skyryder

[Bob]

Frosty and Motu use all the techniques I've had drummed into me over the years.

On brakes - personally I never touch them in a corner. My viewpoint? If you're not getting round, lean it further! Most of us - and I doff my cap to anyone here that does - don't push our bikes to their limits.

But if you are going to cover a brake, make it the rear.

Front brake is a no-no - lock up the front and you are on the floor - front tends to let go suddenly with no chance of saving it. Rear brake - well you never want to brake hard, but as Moko says, feather it and it'll help bleed a little speed. If the rear locks up, what tends to happen is the bike sits up - let off the brake now (in a controlled manner, don't just dump it!) and it'll hopefully settle back into the bend.

One thing I'd add about power - for years I went in and kept a constant throttle all the way round. Until I mentioned this to a mate who used to be an instructor. His advice? Constant doesn't set up for the exit. By gently opening the throttle and increasing the revs as you go through the bend, you are able to turn tighter and then when you reach the exit, you are already in a position to open up and accellerate out.

I'm glad to say I've never had to crash down the 'box without the clutch! I'll do clutchless up shifts, but down? Clutch in, rev, down gear, clutch out every time - thank you 3 times British Superbike Champion (and 500ccGP rider - best ever season placing 4th) Niall MacKenzie for that one. Niall wrote a series of articles on cornering, braking and so on. I learned more from them (about 6 of them) than anything anyone else had taught me (or tried to teach me).

The articles were in Two Wheels Only (TWO) magazine. Don't know if you guys get it out there - but if ever you see an issue where MacKenzie has done an article on riding tips, get it and read. This guy is a hero of mine, as you will have guessed (!), but his whole style was about being smooth, which is how I like to ride if I can.

[NordieBoy]

[QUOTE=SkyryderI think it was K14 who mentioned that he hit a corner in nuetral. What happens is that without engine reves you lost traction and the bike drifted.[/QUOTE]

In neutral you either lose engine braking or the accelleration you were expecting.

You wouldn't lose traction - The bike would be different is all.

Not a nice thing anyway.

[moko]

the RS liked a little bit of rear brake to keep the suspension settled - especially on bumpy corners. not a lot, just a thought's worth.
(

That`s what I was trying to say Marty,your choice of words was a lot better.If you know your bike you can "feel" the brakes through the pedal and be aware of exactly what`s happening.Whenever I change my bike I always find a deserted car park and spend an hour or so on low-speed manouvers and low-speed lock-ups of both wheels to learn how it reacts,how much I can get away with e.t.c.,a lot better than having to learn fast on the road.Very important to find the limits of yourself,your brakes and your tyres before doing the hero bit on the bends.

[Bob]

[QUOTE=NordieBoy]

In neutral you either lose engine braking or the accelleration you were expecting.

You wouldn't lose traction - The bike would be different is all.

Not a nice thing anyway.

Erm, I think physics covers this. If you go into neutral (or whip in the clutch), as you lose revs your centrifugal force disappears. Which is what is keeping you upright. So the bike feels like it is losing traction/falling over/going "a bit wierd" [delete as appropriate]. Same principle when cornering and braking. Drop of revs, bike drifts wide as there is no force holding it to the line it was travelling.

And to think my physics teacher told me I'd struggle in the exam (got a grade 2, so yah boo sucks to him!).

It is also why gradually increasing revs in a bend is a good thing - increased force means you can tighten the turn.

Class over - homework for tonight is discuss why dropping the revs momentarily when changing direction on a roundabout can get you through the flick/flack effect faster...

[DEATH_INC.]

I think everyone uses a different technique,I like the 'slow in/fast out' approach,preferably with a bit of wheelspin (hazing,not a full on powerslide)to help keep her turned in.
The reason the bike turns like shit in nuetral is the physics of cornering a m/c actually require a small amount of slippage from the tyres,especially the rear,and having a bit of acceleration/decelleration(acceleration works better)helps acheive this.

[Posh Tourer :P]

The reason why some bikes like a little rear brake to keep it settled, is to stop the wheel spinning fast when it jumps. I do it on the beemer in gravel, and it stops the rear jumping around, as when the rear lands after being airborne, it is never spinning that much faster than my road speed....

[Jackrat]

I crashed a Triumph Bonniville in the Hunua gorge a few years ago when I missed a gear going into a right hand corner hard.
It went something like this.The bike had a worn selector pawl spring that would allow it to go through which ever gear you were in trying to select into the next one down.It was the first time I had ridden this bike and I didn't know about it yet.I was siting behind a car approaching a left right S bend with a very short straight between corners.As we entered the left hander I could see nothing was coming the other way so I droped it into fourth and gunned it hard past the car useing the short straight to line it up for the right hander.As I hit the apex I droped it into third to blast around the corner but it went through third into second,That locked up the rear so I tryed kicking it back up to thrid but hit a false nutural.Now I'm into the corner an the bike has just stoode up.I'm pointed straight at the drop into the gorge and have no real control.I knew I was going over the edge so thought "stuff that" and stomped on the back brake laying it down.Both bike and I picked up a few dings but at lest we didn't go over the edge.
The owner of the bike got a REAL ear full when I took his poxy bike back to him and I showed him how to remove the spring an fix it.He'd been riding it like that for months.Flamin' weirdo!!

[SPman]

Damn right ill back you up Motu, the only reason i keep up with 600-1000cc bikes is because i hardly EVER touch the brakes...... You have to keep the speed up at all times.....

Which is why its good to learn riding small bikes - all about keeping your flow going - easier to translate these skills up the size chain, than down.
I'm a late apexer - wide in and turn , with rear brake if required.....but then, I'm slow as, so..... ????