Originally Posted by Xtat1k
OK.
Joke understood. Super sensitive and touchy.
Old age brings on such irrational responses.
Guest
OK.
Joke understood. Super sensitive and touchy.
Old age brings on such irrational responses.
Moped rider
no probs, maybe should of added the joke part into first post lol.
Your just jealous because the voices only talk to me.
e mare libertas
Absolutely.
I witter on about guns as toys, but I've never covered another person with a muzzle or passed around a gun with a hot round in the chamber in my life.
I view anyone who can't treat firearms, be they tools or toys, with the respect they deserve, as akin to drunk drivers. Cages and bikes are definitely toys a lot of the time, but they can still kill, and you're all good so long as you remember that.
Dover's ragged on me in this thread along the lines of hunting being a "sick pleasure", but I don't see him turning down beef steaks, and I'd trust anyone who's ever had to carry the responsibility of a fellow creature's death with a gun far more quickly than I'd let the bleeding-heart hippy movie-watcher likes of him near anything that goes 'bang'.
No offense meant, Dover, old fruit. YKWIM and you're welcome to come out for a shoot sometime.
IMHO, it's OK to needle people by being intentionally controversial. It's not OK to genuinely think that this is a lighthearted matter.
< /pontification >
kiwibiker is full of love, an disrespect.
- mikey
Forum whore
Hm. Given that the purpose of a pistol is to kill human beings, not animals, I can't resist answering when pistol shooters last enjoyed long pig ?Dover's ragged on me in this thread along the lines of hunting being a "sick pleasure", but I don't see him turning down beef steaks
Each to his own. I just like blowing things up.
e mare libertas
Bollocks. Rabbit hunting with .22 pistols is great sport, as is deerstalking with large-caliber revolvers.
But, you know. Whatever. Sometimes human beings need killin', too.
Yeah baby. Blackpowder bottle bombs!
I think I just came up with a way to pass the rest of the afternoon.
kiwibiker is full of love, an disrespect.
- mikey
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
I would just like to publicly retract this comment. Some interesting facts have been brought forward and I do hope the Carvells have the very best of legal defence.
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
Hardcore Biker
Pistols stink for hunting with. People who use them for hunting over rifles are largely doing it for the novelty factor. I have used a few dozen types of pistol, and carried them, been given them as gifts and not one of them I would choose over a rifle. Unless I was hunting people or as a close self defence against bears while hiking. (which is like owning a parachute while working in an office block)
The guys on here who want us to adopt a more american style of gun ownership have no fucking idea what they ask for or its consequence. Harden up, take your paranoia medicine and stop being scared of boogie men. What you ask for would only mean more deaths, paranoia, fear and danger to innocent members of NZ society so you can feel more powerful and manly. Carrying a gun is a powerful drug, its one to many people are ready to abuse on both sides of the law.
Hope he gets off, the charge is bullshit
Forum whore
Pistols stink for deer shooting, but they are just great for pig hunting. Thats close quarters, dogs milling around, dont get it wrong, but be quick before you or the dog cops a fang in an artery stuff.
Quote Timber020The guys on here who want us to adopt a more american style of gun ownership have no fucking idea what they ask for or its consequence. Harden up, take your paranoia medicine and stop being scared of boogie men. What you ask for would only mean more deaths, paranoia, fear and danger to innocent members of NZ society so you can feel more powerful and manly.
Actually we do understand. If you go back through the thread and read what has been said, a few things may surprise you. The most common thing is the assumption that NZ is safer than the US states with no gun control. But it actually the reverse - US states with no gun control are SAFER than NZ.
Yes, for those who want facts figues and references..
Dominica leads the world in total crime per capita, with 113.822 per 1,000 people. New Zealand is second with 105.881 per 1,000 people, and Finland is third, with 101.526 per 1,000 people. Yemen has the lowest, with 1.16109 per 1,000 people. The data comes from the Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention).
Hmm so we are not so safe for overall crime.
What about murders then ?
Well in the USA, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Maine, Massachuetss, Minesota, Montana, Nth Dakota, Oregon, Rhode Is, Sth Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming all have murder rates lower than NZ.
Source - US Bureau of Justice 2004, & NZ sensible senticing trust.
If it was true that allowing joe citizen to be armed made it more dangerous then the US could never be safer than NZ. But clearly it often is.
And on the reverse, Manchester England. 3.9 murders with guns per 100,000 people. (yep, I cant find the reference.. but watch this space.) guess what - you cant easily own a gun in Manchester. Yet heaps of US staes manage lower murder rates, some even half the Manchester rate.
So, please stop assuming that increased freedom to own, carry, and use firearms in self defence will increase crime rates.
In fact, if you can, show me somewhere that it has worked !
I know it seems to contradict what you "feel".
But there are lots of unsafe places with total gun control. And there are lots of safe places with no gun control.
And, when I was 22, fit and strong, I knew no one needed a gun for self defence. Now I'm grey, with high blood pressure, a bikers leg, and a crook back , I'm not so sure the strong should decide what I need for self defence.
Cos the guy breaking in my house may not be as old and grey as me.
David must play fair with the other kids, even the idiots.
In the riders seat
So the murder rates in all the other states are higher then?
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Hardcore Biker
I was a member of the NRA, I used to teach kids to shoot, went through the whole NRA instruction thing and got to listen to LONG speals on how wonderful everyone life was in america because they all had guns.
Only one problem, the only people who feel safer are the gun nuts. The statistics that the NRA use, are very well "tuned".
Have you any idea how much money they throw around to insure they keep as much firepower as they could want? How about the amount of school shootings, do you want the youth gangs in NZ to tool up?
I worked with the youth at risk program in the states and in NZ. Their youth are no more violent than ours, but its easier for them to do more harm without any balls because they have access to handguns. In some places I visited, gunshots didnt even bring the police out in the city. They cant keep track of shootings because they are not well reported. Unless a guy ends up in hospital or in the morgue, many shootings go unrecorded or unproven, and thus statisticly they didnt occur. (which is great for the statistics that the NRA like to use, as they count "suspected or possible shootings" only if it suits there arguement at the time.) Cops I worked with who were based in NJ, PA and NY said that they sometimes shot at fleeing suspects but didnt report it as they paperwork was to huge and it would cause further investigations.
The US is screwed, handguns are so ingrained in there society, they can never do anything else. The arms race between police, citizens and criminals continues, unfortunately its one thats never won, and everyone suffers. Besides whats wrong with a shotgun as personal defence when your at home?
I always found a "lightened" single 12g a good pig gun, and with a few buckshot rounds in your pocket, you could bag a few rabbits or a phesant on the way home if the dogs had a quiet day.
Forum whore
Yes kickaha, you are quite correct. Many places in the USA are extremely violent with murder rates many times New Zealands. I understand that in some places with drug and gang problems, the murder rate can be 10x NZs.!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What I am saying is that free access to firearms does not necessarily cause an increase in crime or firearms violence.
And the other thing I am saying is that restricting firearms does not necessarily cause a decrease in crime or firearms violence.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The reality is that we need and will always need to at least attempt to control criminal misuse of guns. But in New Zealand we appear to me at least, to have given up trying to control criminal misuse of guns.
We appear to be trying to make self defence illegal instead, by using backdoor rules about access to weapons.
David must play fair with the other kids, even the idiots.
e mare libertas
Is anyone else here aware of just how recently pistols have become available to competitive target shooters in NZ? We're talking late '80s. Even olympic-style .22 pistol shooting only started to come out of the woodwork in the late '70s. Prior to that, pistols were simply illegal in private ownership.
This is partially why I call bollocks to any suggestion that handguns are easy for criminals to get hold of here. The back-end supply just isn't there, and hasn't been since the 1920s. I'm open to being proved wrong.
The NZ Pistol Association has fought a long, hard fight to get things where they are. When there is not an existing supply of firearms, and particularly handguns, to the general population, the fear that opening such supply would increase violent crime is very valid.
If we're going to be pragmatic, a tightly-controlled trickle of armaments to society's most deserving and qualified members is the only possible next step. I'm sure we all agree that in principal, Greg Carvell should have had that gun, and should have been able to use it in the way he did.
US-style open-slather gun ownership, though, is just never going to happen. Without any picking, choosing or filtering, just simply looking at the ratio of murders to population one country at a time, the USA is a violent place. Several times deadlier than NZ. Any suggestion that the culture of open availability of small arms to the general populace over the last century has had nothing to do with that is pure horseshit. The Founding Fathers undoubtedly did not envisage their society degenerating to the extent that it has.
America is a failed experiment and an empire in decline. Let's learn from its mistakes; why wait for another Edward Gibbon to hit us over the head with them?
kiwibiker is full of love, an disrespect.
- mikey
Forum whore
What a fascinating thread, i'm amazed i didn't stumble on it before
I lost my two front teeth as a young 'en cos i couldn't see down the barrel so i put the stock on my chinand as kids we use to hunt each other with .22's..that was fun but thinking back on it probably not very bright. Had a mate on 'stag' shoot himself in the foot 'cos he had one loaded
he neve knew he could dance so well
I reckon bob the shop keeper should get told off for having firearms at the ready.. no doubt about it.
:slap:
Forum whore
We also probably overestimate how common it is to have an unarmed population.
Only very recently indeed has it been the norm for men NOT to go about armed.
For most of history men carried arms, quite openly. Swords, cudgels , guns (the latter less common 'cos they weren't a lot of use). Moreover, in a good deal of the world this is still the norm.
Within my lifetime I can remeber when bank tellers were REQUIRED to keep a loaded revolver ready to hand. And were expected to be ready to use it at need.
The notion that ordinary people would NOT be armed is very much a Johnny Come Lately. And perhaps a temporary aberration, whose time is passing ?
Guest
When I first started work it was for the National Bank. The manager took great delight in showing the new junior the pistol he was required to keep in the drawer of his office desk. He had to go on a course once a year, fire the pistol 6 times and that was it.
It was expected that if the need arose he was to use the pistol.
When was this?
1974. 32 years ago. Long before the "nanny state" decided that we couldnt be trusted to look after ourselves and of course protect the rights of the crims.
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