North Korea

**James Deuce** · 11th October 2006, 10:47

Originally Posted by jonbuoy

Yes its all George Bushes fault Lou. Weren't you bitching about the US invading Iraq BEFORE they had WOMD - Like Nukes?? Maybe we should have waited till they had them too - or left it till they could of bought a couple of the North Koreans.

No, that wasn't the point at all.

Iraq didn't have them, didn't have the infrastructure to develop them, and UN weapons inspectors failed to find any evidence of them in 10 years.

Iraq was invaded because of 9/11 BECAUSE no one could find any evidence of WOMD, but the US needed to remove its ex-Ally from power in Iraq to pursue the agenda of making sure there was an oil rich Middle Eastern state that they owned.

The Korean issue isn't vaguely the same.

I'm disturbed that the UN or the US haven't invaded Nth Korea purely on the premise of 1 million people in labour camps and about a million dying in poverty a year.

The UN and the US seem to turn a blind eye to injustice, genocide, and outright insanity.

Oh yeah, that's right. No oil in Nth Korea, Rwanda, or Bosnia. They did get involved in Bosnia, but that was a token effort and only because they are white Europeans.

**jonbuoy** · 11th October 2006, 10:51

Originally Posted by Jim2

No, that wasn't the point at all.

Iraq didn't have them, didn't have the infrastructure to develop them, and UN weapons inspectors failed to find any evidence of them in 10 years.

Iraq was invaded because of 9/11 BECAUSE no one could find any evidence of WOMD, but the US needed to remove its ex-Ally from power in Iraq to pursue the agenda of making sure there was an oil rich Middle Eastern state that they owned.

The Korean issue isn't vaguely the same.

I'm disturbed that the UN or the US haven't invaded Nth Korea purely on the premise of 1 million people in labour camps and about a million dying in poverty a year.

The UN and the US seem to turn a blind eye to injustice, genocide, and outright insanity.

Oh yeah, that's right. No oil in Nth Korea, Rwanda, or Bosnia. They did get involved in Bosnia, but that was a token effort and only because they are white Europeans.

Exactly my point - So why blame America for what North Korea are up to?

**Winston001** · 11th October 2006, 11:52

Originally Posted by Jim2

Iraq was invaded because of 9/11 BECAUSE no one could find any evidence of WOMD, but the US needed to remove its ex-Ally from power in Iraq to pursue the agenda of making sure there was an oil rich Middle Eastern state that they owned.

The Korean issue isn't vaguely the same.

I'm disturbed that the UN or the US haven't invaded Nth Korea purely on the premise of 1 million people in labour camps and about a million dying in poverty a year.

The UN and the US seem to turn a blind eye to injustice, genocide, and outright insanity.

Oh yeah, that's right. No oil in Nth Korea, Rwanda, or Bosnia. They did get involved in Bosnia, but that was a token effort and only because they are white Europeans.

Well said Jim2. However I don't think the UN or the USA turn a blind eye to the bad stuff, but rather the USA has it's political priorities and the UN is a weak talkfest. There are a helleva lot of fires to fight in the world if every repressive regime was taken on. Having said that, I think the UN should move in force to stop repression but until we have a permanent international police/army organisation, it'll be left largely to the Americans by default.

And just why is that? Most of the Western world's population and a good part of its wealth is outside the USA. Why should the Yanks be looked to for an effective military force?

Bosnia is a case in point. The French, Belgians, Germans, Dutch, and English faffed around half heartedly for 6 years in the Balkans while the Serbs and Bosnians committed genocide. Finally the Yanks had enough, committed forces and peace broke out in about 18 months.

**Indiana_Jones** · 11th October 2006, 12:53

The western world will try to go through the procedures, but one man won't......

AXEL FOLEY

-Indy

**jonbuoy** · 11th October 2006, 13:20

Originally Posted by Winston001

Well said Jim2. However I don't think the UN or the USA turn a blind eye to the bad stuff, but rather the USA has it's political priorities and the UN is a weak talkfest. There are a helleva lot of fires to fight in the world if every repressive regime was taken on. Having said that, I think the UN should move in force to stop repression but until we have a permanent international police/army organisation, it'll be left largely to the Americans by default.

And just why is that? Most of the Western world's population and a good part of its wealth is outside the USA. Why should the Yanks be looked to for an effective military force?

Bosnia is a case in point. The French, Belgians, Germans, Dutch, and English faffed around half heartedly for 6 years in the Balkans while the Serbs and Bosnians committed genocide. Finally the Yanks had enough, committed forces and peace broke out in about 18 months.

They did their best, with the UN tying their hands behind their backs. The US alone has more clout and influence with the UN that any of the rest put together. British troops are still there now.

**Korea** · 11th October 2006, 13:26

About time I stepped in, with my take from where I'm standing in S.Korea.

Firstly, the nuclear testing is all just political buggary-bollocks in a heated round of poker-faced bluffing between N.Korea and the US and possibly Japan. There is no threat to S.Korea. The S.Korean Roh administration maintains that the way to opening up N.Korea is through diplomacy.

Conversely, the US have preached 'carrot and stick' pollicies with N.Korea but are increasingly using more 'stick' and reneging on the 'carrots'; some of these carrots include incompleted light-water reactors for stable electricity (promised last millenium from previous non-proliferation treaties), lifting of economic sanctions, and financial aid.
I believe this is why N.Korea wants to engage in one-to-one (or Unilateral) talks with the US - "So you want us to stop the arms race? Well where are our promised gearz?" that's the real issue at hand but the US is making out like there are other issues that require 6-way talks (China, Russia, N.Korea, S.Korea, Japan, and the USA).

George Bush's refusal to have unilateral talks with N.Korea is exacerbating the situation. What is he afraid of? Well, he might have to follow-through on the promises that have been reneged on. Therefore the Bush administration continues to push the 6-party talks.

Bush's policies towards N.Korea have exacerbated the situation, but really this rhetoric has been going on (and off) for over 10 years since N.Korea first started their long-range missile programs (once again for bargaining leverage).

The reason behind the nuclear testing: another wildcard in the ongoing poker game between the US and N.Korea.
Bush is basically getting nowhere with his hard-line attitude and N.Korea is waving two fingers in their direction.

A respected authority on the subject had this to say:
"I think Kim Jong Ill has them all by the balls.
I venture to suggest that what he exploded was just a conventional bunch of bombz. It was too puny to be a nuclear device."
More poker-faced bluffing perhaps?

I'm not pro-N.Korea, but as I am living in S.Korea I do know the situation. We may see how it pans out over the next couple of months, but at this stage it is just another attention-getting device from an increasingly beligerant child.

I'm interested to see how this talk-show pans out.

**James Deuce** · 11th October 2006, 13:30

Originally Posted by Winston001

Well said Jim2. However I don't think the UN or the USA turn a blind eye to the bad stuff, but rather the USA has it's political priorities and the UN is a weak talkfest. There are a helleva lot of fires to fight in the world if every repressive regime was taken on. Having said that, I think the UN should move in force to stop repression but until we have a permanent international police/army organisation, it'll be left largely to the Americans by default.

And just why is that? Most of the Western world's population and a good part of its wealth is outside the USA. Why should the Yanks be looked to for an effective military force?

Bosnia is a case in point. The French, Belgians, Germans, Dutch, and English faffed around half heartedly for 6 years in the Balkans while the Serbs and Bosnians committed genocide. Finally the Yanks had enough, committed forces and peace broke out in about 18 months.

All good points, except the one about wealth. The US control and comsume 80% of the world's resource. Good on them for establishing a position of military and economic power.

The US action in Bosnia was very limited compared to potential capability, and don't forget the US didn't pay UN fees for nearly 2 decades resulting in a vast hole in budget for the UN. The US effectively denied the UN capability and then blamed them for the outcome.

**Korea** · 11th October 2006, 13:32

The long range missile tests include:
- a 1998 test firing that flew over Japan and landed in the ocean.
- this year's most recent tests involving 7 missiles, including one long-range missile, that landed in the East Sea / Sea of Japan (between the Korean penisula and Japan). One missile that exploded shortly after launch.

There have been no missiles exploded near Hawaii or any other US territory. Current estimates say that their long range missiles could barely reach the coast of the United States.

The bomb that was tested in N.Korea was estimated to carry a similar payload or less as that dropped on Hiroshima. It would weigh about 4 tons and the North currently doesn't have any long-range missiles that could carry this sort of payload.

In short: Kim Jong Il is all fart and no shit.

**NighthawkNZ:Me** · 11th October 2006, 15:25

Originally Posted by Jim2

The UN should be invading to feed a brainwashed populace. Should have done it 20 years ago.

The UN is a toothless and clawless tiger

**Wellyman** · 11th October 2006, 16:12

Yea, I have been watchin it very closely. from what it says in the paper, all I can figure out that out of all the nukes we have got, we still have enough to blow us to hell and back, and that aint the start of it.
WM

**Lou Girardin** · 11th October 2006, 17:29

Originally Posted by jonbuoy

Yes its all George Bushes fault Lou. Weren't you bitching about the US invading Iraq BEFORE they had WOMD - Like Nukes?? Maybe we should have waited till they had them too - or left it till they could of bought a couple of the North Koreans.

Iraq had no chance of developing nukes in our lifetime, don't believe US bullshit. The invasion merely spurred Nth Korea on to get theirs active.
Besides, the Nth Koreans and China have kicked the UN's arse once already.