Union rejects Harley's ‘pay cuts for jobs’ proposal

[Bob]

The United Steel Workers Union has rejected a “lower wages for new hires” offer by Harley-Davidson.

In return for the cuts, Harley had promised a $120 million expansion in Milwaukee of larger motorcycle engines and transmissions. The cuts – which would have lowered wages for new hires by as much as one-third and reduced health and pension benefits for all workers - are needed to manage costs over the long term, said Rod Copes, vice president and general manager of the company's Pilgrim Road Powertrain Operations.

The vote does not put jobs in Milwaukee in jeopardy, but it does mean Harley will be look to expand elsewhere, a company official said. It employs about 4,500 people in the Milwaukee area.

[Lou Girardin]

They'll build them in China, just like their aftermarket stuff.

[Pwalo]

That's going to help build quality.

[The Pastor]

you can get very good quality in china, you just have to (like everywhere else) pay for it.

[oldrider]

Typical union thinking, they want no part of being responsible for the business they sponge off unless it is to share in the profits the business makes during good times.

Ask them to share in the loss during bad times and that is not their problem!

Eventually the parasite consumes the host and they all die! Unions are just shallow thinking grabbers with hidden agendas! (IMHO) John.

[Paul in NZ]

That's going to help build quality.

Sadly - it probably will...

[ManDownUnder]

Typical union thinking, they want no part of being responsible for the business they sponge off unless it is to share in the profits the business makes during good times.

Ask them to share in the loss during bad times and that is not their problem!

Eventually the parasite consumes the host and they all die! Unions are just shallow thinking grabbers with hidden agendas! (IMHO) John.

Very (and sadly) true. But then, here's an example of the free market doing it's thing. The Union will say no, the company won't be able to afford to expand and it's all downhill from there.

Workers get laid off, or compeition will eat profits and then workers get laid off... and things spiral downhill.

[Ixion]

Typical union thinking, they want no part of being responsible for the business they sponge off unless it is to share in the profits the business makes during good times.

Ask them to share in the loss during bad times and that is not their problem!

Eventually the parasite consumes the host and they all die! Unions are just shallow thinking grabbers with hidden agendas! (IMHO) John.

Shocking ain't it. Pity to let the FACTS get in the way.

Truth is that there ARE no bad times. HD profits are soaring .

Harley-Davidson 3Q Profit Up 18 Percent


By EMILY FREDRIX
AP Business Writer
Published October 12, 2006, 12:51 PM CDT

MILWAUKEE -- Harley-Davidson Inc. said Thursday its third-quarter profit jumped 18 percent, lifted by a rise in retail sales of its namesake motorcycles.

Net income for the quarter ended Sept. 24 totaled $312.7 million, or $1.20 per share, compared with a profit of $265 million, or 96 cents per share, a year ago. Revenue climbed 14 percent to $1.64 billion from $1.43 billion last year.

Analysts expected a profit of $1.10 on revenue of $1.58 billion, according to a poll by Thomson Financial.

Worldwide retail sales of Harley-Davidson motorcycles grew 8.9 percent. Shipments grew 10.8 percent to 97,046 units. Domestic retail sales were up 6.7 percent, while international sales were up 18.7 percent overall, the Milwaukee-based company said.

So, HD management are saying to the workers "Well done . You've all done very well. Worked hard, and now profits are at an all time high . In fact business is so good we can hardly keep up with the demand, so we are going to expand capacity. So, in exchange for all your hard work ,loyalty and dedication, we want you all to take a swingeing big pay cut. OK ?"

What you YOU say to such a proposal?

Seems to me its the management that are being parasitic here , not the workers. I suspect that HD , like most companies , could lose an awful lot of bean counters and HR droids without noticing any problems. Losing the same number of guys who actually PRODUCE THE GOODS might be another matter.

[Macktheknife]

Shocking ain't it. Pity to let the FACTS get in the way.

Truth is that there ARE no bad times. HD profits are soaring .


So, HD management are saying to the workers "Well done . You've all done very well. Worked hard, and now profits are at an all time high . In fact business is so good we can hardly keep up with the demand, so we are going to expand capacity. So, in exchange for all your hard work ,loyalty and dedication, we want you all to take a swingeing big pay cut. OK ?"

What you YOU say to such a proposal?

Seems to me its the management that are being parasitic here , not the workers. I suspect that HD , like most companies , could lose an awful lot of bean counters and HR droids without noticing any problems. Losing the same number of guys who actually PRODUCE THE GOODS might be another matter.

I too thought that HD had experienced a strong growth period, what the hell do they need to try and screw the workforce for? Increasing sales and profits across the board, strong forecasts of more of the same, lets cut wages and benefits and see how much we can milk this baby!
I have no problem with businesses making good profits but why would you screw your workforce to get it? Makes better sense to me to build a strong workforce with high loyalty to the company, sustainable growth and enduring profits.

[Paul in NZ]

It's a common problem - how does HD reduce the unit cost and maximise the profit while still giving the impression that these bikes are made in the good ole US of A buy steel working union labour etc etc...

Well this aint it....

A commentary on a recent tour of the US led a friend to remark just how many businesses and houses in rural areas were plain abandoned. Went bust and walked away abandoned.... The common answer was when the jobs went, so did the people and the US (like all countries), the consumers and the businesses that are native to those countries need to be a little careful.

Lower wages mean more profit and easier to compete in the market but what is the point when the market's ability to purchase the goods reduces?

HD has deliberately priced the bikes high and restricted supply to keep the demand high. Extra capacity could be a mistake and without going into the detail, antagonising the already po'd unions could be a grave mistake. No matter how many bikes they sell to rock stars, once HD looses the working / middle class dream market they will be in big trouble.

Oh well - WTF do I care - let them eat cake I say...

[oldrider]

Maybe some of us need glasses, I read that HD were proposing to start the new workers in the new plant at a lower rate than their existing workers that have helped carry them along the path to success but the union would not play ball, they want all the new staff to be paid at the higher rate!
Displaying a lack of flexibility by the union to work in with the management!
Read it again! Maybe you haven't got all the FACTS right you self. John.

[Ixion]

Not quite

But union president James Wheiland told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel that more than two-thirds of the union's 1,500 members voted against the proposal, which would have lowered wages for new hires by as much as one-third and reduced health and pension benefits for all workers.

So managment wanted to shaft ALL their workers , but new ones even worse. Health and pension benefits are a part of pay. How about I suggest you take a one third cut in YOUR pension and give the money to me? Still reckon that wouldn't be a pay cut?

And what about MANAGEMENT displaying some flexibility to work in with the work force ?

Why is it always the worker that is supposed to willingly take a pay cut? Bet you any money management weren't proposing to cut their own salaries or benefits. Or the shareholders dividend.

There might be a a case for expecting the workers (and bad mouthing "the union" is just a euphemism for bad mouthing the workers. The decision was a democratic vote) to take a pay cut . But when the company is rolling in the money its just an insult.

[oldrider]

Not quite


So managment wanted to shaft ALL their workers , but new ones even worse. Health and pension benefits are a part of pay. How about I suggest you take a one third cut in YOUR pension and give the money to me? Still reckon that wouldn't be a pay cut?

And what about MANAGEMENT displaying some flexibility to work in with the work force ?

Why is it always the worker that is supposed to willingly take a pay cut? Bet you any money management weren't proposing to cut their own salaries or benefits. Or the shareholders dividend.

There might be a a case for expecting the workers (and bad mouthing "the union" is just a euphemism for bad mouthing the workers. The decision was a democratic vote) to take a pay cut . But when the company is rolling in the money its just an insult.

Suit your self, I think unions are the ones who need the confrontational workplace and they are the ones who keep it going.

If there is no common enemy why would they need to "unite"? Why would they need a union? Who then would be out of a job? John.

[Lou Girardin]

If there is no common enemy why would they need to "unite"? Why would they need a union? Who then would be out of a job? John.

Perhaps they want a 40 hour week. Remember that?
Now they call it "work, life balance". Still have to work all the hours you're told though. It's up to you to balance the rest
Perhaps they wanted to stop child labour.
Perhaps they want to be treated with simple human dignity and receive a fair days pay for a fair days work.
Perhaps laissez fair capitalism is the true parasite.

[Scouse]

Typical union thinking, they want no part of being responsible for the business they sponge off unless it is to share in the profits the business makes during good times.

Ask them to share in the loss during bad times and that is not their problem!

Eventually the parasite consumes the host and they all die! Unions are just shallow thinking grabbers with hidden agendas! (IMHO) John.

Fuck take that record off its scrached and keeps repeting its self
Oh and by the way your a Cock unions are a necesary evil because of facists twats like yourself