Transit Tolls on Western Ring Route

[Dai]

In other words: Over, Under.

Must be time for a bit of public debate sponsored by BRONZ. Are they up for it?

OK I'm ignorant and need enlightening. Who are BRONZ? What do they do and how effective have they been in the past?

I am assuming the name meaans something like "Bike Riders of NZ" or something similar.

Call me sceptical but in all my years I have been involved with a number of so called pressure groups and "national" bodies and on the whole have found them to be inefectual and more interested in the organisational structure rather than the interests of their members. Very much like governments in that they pay lip service to the membership/ voters when seeking to attain their positions bi=ut once having attained the said positions they decide that what we really need is to be told what is good for us, like little children.

I do hope I am wrong with respect to this org.

In my other sport/interest I have watched another body who proports to be there for its members, become too involved in politiking betwwen the various disciplines to really show a united front to the govermental powers, thereby becoming as useless as mammary glands on a bovine of the male gender.

[ManDownUnder]

In other words: Over, Under.

Must be time for a bit of public debate sponsored by BRONZ. Are they up for it?

No doubt they are, and any input they have is very welcome.

I'm still all for the ride thorugh the toll booths at 5:15 on a busy night... use the system against itself.

[ManDownUnder]

OK I'm ignorant and need enlightening. Who are BRONZ? What do they do and how effective have they been in the past?

I am assuming the name meaans something like "Bike Riders of NZ" or something similar.

Call me sceptical but in all my years I have been involved with a number of so called pressure groups and "national" bodies and on the whole have found them to be inefectual and more interested in the organisational structure rather than the interests of their members. Very much like governments in that they pay lip service to the membership/ voters when seeking to attain their positions bi=ut once having attained the said positions they decide that what we really need is to be told what is good for us, like little children.

I do hope I am wrong with respect to this org.

In my other sport/interest I have watched another body who proports to be there for its members, become too involved in politiking betwwen the various disciplines to really show a united front to the govermental powers, thereby becoming as useless as mammary glands on a bovine of the male gender.

I've had litle to do with BRONZ but they seem to have it together...

[Ixion]

I'll raise it at the next Auckland BRONZ meeting (7:30 pm 3rd Wednesday every month - except December I think - Danish House Penrose Maurice Rd I think it is , everybody welcome, just come along.Wotcha waiting for, an engraved invitation ? )

[James Deuce]

I do hope I am wrong with respect to this org.

I've certainly had public and private disagreements with BRONZ in the past, both distant and recent, but given the executive contains a few distinguished KBers I reckon they deserve a shot.

Pop along to the meeting like Ixion says and see if you can't help come up with an idea like half price for 50% vehicle occupancy on Auckland toll roads.

[Dai]

I've certainly had public and private disagreements with BRONZ in the past, both distant and recent, but given the executive contains a few distinguished KBers I reckon they deserve a shot.

Pop along to the meeting like Ixion says and see if you can't help come up with an idea like half price for 50% vehicle occupancy on Auckland toll roads.

So then the next meeting is the 15th then. I might just pop along to see what goes.

[Wolf]

I am assuming the name meaans something like "Bike Riders of NZ" or something similar.

"Biker's Rights Organisation of New Zealand", I believe.

[vifferman]

I find it incredible (then again, probably not) the way things work, whether it be Globular Warning or Troll Roams. Even though nearly everybody with a working brain starts off saying, "What a load of tosh! Phukkem! We won't stand for it!!", after The Media hammering it enough, everyone lies down, rolls over, and stick their bums up ready for a jolly good rogering.

We've already paid for these roads many times over. Why the flurckj should we have to pay for them again? Why should we be sucked into accepting another petrol tax? Another toll? Another imposition?




No, I haven't read any of the other posts in this thread.
I'm too lazy and/or apathetic....

[ManDownUnder]

Why the flurckj should we have to pay for them again? Why should we be sucked into accepting another petrol tax? Another toll? Another imposition?

Simply because they say we have to - isn't it obvious?..

or maybe it's not LOL

Where's the "No thanks" option for speeding up road building? I note there's a feedback option, and I have to say it's all on paper that presupposes the roads are to be built and tolled, and us weary punters are simply needing clarification to questions they can help us with.

What happens to the pile of "No thanks" votes they get?

[Wolf]

What happens to the pile of "No thanks" votes they get?

It gets destroyed and ignored along with all the petitions and anything else that overtly disagrees with govt "policy" (read: "whim").

What, you thought this was a democracy?!?!?

[ManDownUnder]

It gets destroyed and ignored along with all the petitions and anything else that overtly disagrees with govt "policy" (read: "whim").

What, you thought this was a democracy?!?!?

Your good point highlights my mistake... sorry...

[ManDownUnder]

Important update...

Just speaking wqith one of the guys from the public sessions Transit have been running (remember hearing about those?? - me either!)

Anyway, here's something to consider. On ramps on the tolled section are few and far between. There are 7 in total, and the section that concverns me personally is the NW from Auckland to Westgate and beyond.

There is an onramp proposed at New North Road (near the Pack 'n Save) and the next one (west bound) is Hobsonville.

So... the net effectis that anyone working in the city, living in West Auckland needs to head to New North to get onto the toll lane, or head to Hobsonville to get onto the toll lane when coming the other way.

An interesting question to ask Transit is this. With the proposed design, how do I get from A to B. There's a good chance you need to go well out of your way to get onto the toll lanes (getting off should be at any of the existing offramps I understand, so getting on is the issue affecting logistics).

That's part one of the concern - part two is strongly related however.

There will be parts of the MW where a lane is seconded for tolled use - i.e. there will be one less lane available for non tolled traffic. Combine that fact with the annoyance of having to go out of your way to get onto the tolled lane, and the deterrant effect of paying the toll, and we have a shamozzle on our hands.

The net effect is that most of West Auckalnd gets shafted in respect of heading into town (you ca't get onto the toll lane if you want to, and there's less lanes available non tolled), and likwise if you want to head west from anywhere west of the city centre.

Nice one guys...

[Swoop]

From the Harold today.
Administration costs add $800m to toll road bill

Monday November 13, 2006
By Mathew Dearnaley


Toll administration costs alone are likely to equal the extra $800 million Transit NZ says it needs to find to complete Auckland's western ring route by 2015.

Financial details disclosed by the agency at the end of last week indicate the Herald has been conservative in predicting tolls would push the final cost to motorists for completing the 48km route between Manukau and Albany towards $4 billion.

The figure could reach or exceed $4.15 billion after counting:

* Repayments of more than $2 billion over 35 years on a loan of $1 billion.

* Administration costs of about $800 million.

* Traditional funds of $1.3 billion already promised by the Government.

Transit NZ, which has waited until more than halfway through a seven-week public consultation period before issuing preliminary funding details, expects to raise $900 million from motorists - plus GST - in the 10 years after the ring route is complete.

It says in a briefing paper that it cannot make longer-term revenue predictions, but estimates administration costs will claim up to 33 per cent of tolls collected in the early years, before averaging 25 per cent over the total charging period.

It expects to have to raise a loan of up to $1 billion to cover an $800 million funding shortfall, $140 million for tolling infrastructure, and interest charges that will at first exceed revenue.

Chief executive Rick van Barneveld said Transit could not be held responsible for any revenue projections by the Weekend Herald which suggest gross takings may if anything exceed $3.2 billion.

Transit wants to charge tolls ranging from 75c to $1.50c for cars at peak periods at seven electronic charging points, and double for trucks, in 2005 dollars with adjustments for inflation plus annual rises of up to 2 per cent.

But asked if he accepted that administration costs were likely to reach $800 million, Mr van Barneveld said: "Yes, you could say that, because that's where it would be in the long haul."

He also said the Herald's use of the Retirement Commissioner's on-line debt calculator to estimate a $2.04 billion payback on a $1 billion loan over 35 years at an annual interest rate of 7.5 per cent was a simple but "valid" exercise.

On the other side of the ledger, Transit points to a study commissioned by the Automobile Association which in 2004 estimated an economic benefit of accelerating completion of the ring route at $838 million a year. That meant a return of $4.60 for every dollar invested.

But Waitakere City councillor Derek Battersby, who earlier challenged Transit to reveal all its financial documents so the public could see "how stupid the whole process is", said the Government could save Aucklanders anguish by borrowing from its superannuation fund and repaying itself $50 million-plus a year with a 5c-a-litre regional fuel tax.

He and his colleagues have been joined by Auckland City's transport committee and Manukau Mayor Sir Barry Curtis in suggesting a new fuel tax would spread the financial burden more equitably throughout the region.

But that could limit alternative revenue options for filling a $700 million public transport funding gap facing Auckland.

[ManDownUnder]

From the Harold today.
Administration costs add $800m to toll road bill

Ha - and you lot said they were in it for the money!

FFS, the tolling admin costs... a couple of booms, cameras capable of OCR, contruction and interface with a billing systems and away we go. $800m??? I don't think so. More like $20m + profits

[Wolf]

Ha - and you lot said they were in it for the money!

FFS, the tolling admin costs... a couple of booms, cameras capable of OCR, contruction and interface with a billing systems and away we go. $800m??? I don't think so. More like $20m + profits

"Admin costs" = lining the pockets of a few "administrators"